Recovery Gear

Submitted: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 at 00:03
ThreadID: 119917 Views:3352 Replies:15 FollowUps:0
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Thanks Brian for previous reply to my layout question - will take into consideration. To what extent do group members carry recovery gear? We are trying to find some figures on the weight of recovery gear. Our vehicle of choice would be a 78 series Toyota Troop Carrier - dropping in a 6.5lt turbo Chev. V8 but obviously weight allowable in this vehicle is not endless. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Gai
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Reply By: Deleted User - Wednesday, May 07, 2003 at 00:25

Wednesday, May 07, 2003 at 00:25
Hey, Adam! Love the passion, but objectively I need to make an informed opinion and Engel don't help me do that. Have a look at www.engelinternational.com then look at www.waeco.com.au and tell me who looks the more serious about giving detailed info. I agree with you totally in regard to current draw, cooling capacity & battery protection, but at least Waeco give the figures - I haven't seen that Engel claim better than 50 degrees below ambient and its line-ball on current draw (after all we all know about Danfoss compressors!). The built in 240v (if needed) and better (?) tie-down arrangements give the Engel an edge, perhaps, but price, marketing, give-aways & 20% more cooling in a lighter package still look mighty persuasive. If you still recon I'm nuts, come back with some real comparisons & we can have a real discussion. Yours sans Cold Shoulders Griff
AnswerID: 558754

Reply By: Deleted User - Wednesday, May 07, 2003 at 00:26

Wednesday, May 07, 2003 at 00:26
Griff

Before buying fridge consder the Autofridge. This uses the eutectic principle and truly uses far less energy than Engels/Waeco.

To use, they are initially 'pumped down'. This takes about eight -ten hours during which it runs continuously drawing about 3.5 amps.

From thereon they need running about two hours each morning and evening only turned fully to cold. Used like that they consume 14 - 20 amp/hours/day. They can also be used by setting the thermostat - when they uase about 25 amp/hours/day.

They are available in 40 and 70 litre capacity -both use the same energy (insulation on bigger unit is thicker).

I've used one for over eight years and found them to work well even in 45 degree C temps. Agent is Quirk's Victory Light in Sydney.

Re torsion bars. Prefer not to crank up bars as it does increase the torsional loading, but a few mm probably makes little odds.
Collyn

AnswerID: 558755

Reply By: Deleted User - Wednesday, May 07, 2003 at 00:27

Wednesday, May 07, 2003 at 00:27
Griff, I have some stats on Engle for you. Mine is a 40ltr and has a factory stated average DC current draw of 0.5 to 2.5A and a cooling cap -15 @ +35deg C. The AC voltage comes in handy when the truck is not being used for long periods. I have fitted an external IP56 rated 240V inlet to the back of the car to save having a plug hanging out the door. Ive had it running in some very hot conditions while away with no dramas, she will still freeze if you want. My family have always had Engles and we still have one thats 15yo and still going strong. They are expensive but i think well worth it. Does anyone know of anyhting that will seperate bottles in the fridge???? I use six pack holders from crown lager to stop the glass from banging together but they are only cardboard and get stuffed quickly.
AnswerID: 558756

Reply By: Deleted User - Wednesday, May 07, 2003 at 00:28

Wednesday, May 07, 2003 at 00:28
Adam,
I have used strips of sponge rubber taped in a loop
and slipped over the bottles for years, works well.
Dave
AnswerID: 558757

Reply By: Deleted User - Wednesday, May 07, 2003 at 00:29

Wednesday, May 07, 2003 at 00:29
Re debogging - which is where this thread started - do consider fitting differential locks. These can make a huge difference in slippery conditions - much less so tho in sand.
Collyn
AnswerID: 558758

Reply By: Deleted User - Wednesday, May 07, 2003 at 00:30

Wednesday, May 07, 2003 at 00:30
Well Griffon,
With 7 other wheels sitting firmly on the ground,
why would you worry about one blow job ? Be optimistic and believe that Murphy
does nott carry a GPS device and therefore can't keep up with you.
As for the Sahara, frankly I would travel any other
way, which is why we all own BT's and not Jaycos.
Did the doctor help?
AnswerID: 558759

Reply By: Deleted User - Wednesday, May 07, 2003 at 00:31

Wednesday, May 07, 2003 at 00:31
Stabilizer bars, just more weight .............for
nothing. I have one jockey type leg/plate mounted on the A-arm and that's enough
on my 18'er.
AnswerID: 558760

Reply By: Deleted User - Wednesday, May 07, 2003 at 00:32

Wednesday, May 07, 2003 at 00:32
Adam just goes to show that I don't think you're justified in your "strong disagreement" based on the figures - as you state, the Engle quotes a 50 below ambient capacity & current draw in the same class as the Waeco. I think you in fact (perhaps justifiably) have a severe case of brand loyalty. Nuffin wrong with that. Still looking at the (Positive & negative) threads available on both fridges on the ExplorOz site. It's all compromises after all - no one has done a power-off thaw test series that I have come accross. Seems pretty bloody obvious to me that you simply place a fridge in a large room of controlled temperature & humidity & see how long it takes for a 5kg block of ice to melt & for the resulting water to reach, say, 4 degrees (above which temp things start to go off). This would certainly sort out the insulation issue! If money, weight & size were no issues, I'd probably go the AutoFridge route (still might!) & bugger the Yanks & the Krauts Danfoss not-withstanding). SnakeDude Wash your mind out - there's ladies present.. Besides, you know Murph's motto is, "You can run, but you can't hide!" That's how come he can blow the logic chip on the GPS just as you're about to call in a position fix to the Emergency Services to come and save you from the blow job. That's one vote for no stabiliser bars (2 if you count Tracy). Collyn Thanks on the Diff Lockers - Rear & Front, I presume? (Would make the difference between 2 & 4 wheels driving in the slop, yes?). Recommendations? Tojo originals; ARB Air lockers etc?? Thanks also on the fridge issue - certainly the Eutectics would be the technically superior if well executed. At the end of the day, though, who cares how much power you've used as long as the peach akvavit is still well below zero? All and Sundry Anyone with any interest/experience in muckin about in boats, could you have a look at me question in the Options $ Extras page? One other thing - any recommendations on max current draw on Microwave (seen a lovely new Whirlpool with crisper at a Totasilly Impractical (?) 2400W input wattage vs our current 1450 on our home unit. Any brand recommendations? Ta muchly Griff
AnswerID: 558761

Reply By: Deleted User - Wednesday, May 07, 2003 at 00:33

Wednesday, May 07, 2003 at 00:33
Hey Gai,
You've forgotten to factor in the satellite dish
and pole, absolutely necessary for those long, dark, boring nights in the
outback.
AnswerID: 558762

Reply By: Deleted User - Wednesday, May 07, 2003 at 00:34

Wednesday, May 07, 2003 at 00:34
Griff

Without some form of diff lock a 4WD with one front wheel and one rear wheel spinning is a zeroWD!. Air Lockers (from ARB) front and rear are a good choice. Major value is in slippery conditions. Most time you only need the rear one.

Re microwave ovens. Most are 55-60% efficient - thus an '800-watt' unit actually draws 1330-1450 watts. If driven via an inverter this will be about 120 - 135 amps at 12 volts. This really requires around 500 A/H battery capacity (if using deep cycle batteries) as max advisable draw from such batteries is 25% of the A/H capacity.
Re US fridges - hard to take them seriously when they think only in Fahrenheit!
Trust this helps
Collyn Rivers

AnswerID: 558763

Reply By: Wadefarers - Wednesday, May 07, 2003 at 00:35

Wednesday, May 07, 2003 at 00:35
Griff Re the diff lockers - I have a nagging feeling that I read somewhere that lockers fitted to the front diff of a Toyota caused steering problems when used (not a problem on the back). I not sure if that was only in low range or when turned on generally and if it only applied to constant 4wd models. (Perhaps Collyn can clarify). Regards Jeff
AnswerID: 558764

Reply By: Deleted User - Wednesday, May 07, 2003 at 00:36

Wednesday, May 07, 2003 at 00:36
Bruce:
Re front diff locks. Yes that's dead right. When the front diff lock is engaged a vehicle becomes very difficult and only partially predictable in steering.

A front lock can be absolutely invaluable but must be used with extreme caution and only at very low speed in low 4WD - i.e. to get yourself out of trouble - not further into it!

The ARB Air Locker has the big advantage that it is switchable on/off when needed. In my view it's the ONLY type that should be used in the front end.

Despite the apparent problems I still strongly recommend a front locker if expecting to be places that are slippery - but they are not a huge help in sand.

Whilst on this topic, I'd strongly recommend an Air Locker also at the back because some diff locks (especially the Detroit Locker) cause the vehicle to be hard to deflect from a straight line when reversing.

My OKA must be carefully positioned as it is almost impossible to steer in reverse in soft sand - the effectively rigid rear axle will simply pull the front wheels sideways through the sand - even with the front lock engaged! I fitted it as it was the only diff lock available for an OKA at the time. In mud it's marvelous!

Whilst on the subjedct never underestimate the benefit of reducing tyre pressures when in sand - including the trailer's. It makes a HUGE difference.
Trust this helps
Collyn.
AnswerID: 558765

Reply By: Deleted User - Wednesday, May 07, 2003 at 00:37

Wednesday, May 07, 2003 at 00:37
I'm sure Toyota has a factory locker option on the front and rear of the cruiser I could be wrong. Front lockers are not to be taken lightly as they place a great strain on components in a front diff. Having a CV joint (or uni) in them is the weak link. In fact it is very easy to shear a CV just by engaging the front diff lock turning the wheel to full lock and reverse up a hill .... give it too much and snap !!! Also trying to get a vehicle to turn with a front locker can be difficult ... a mate and I used to play silly buggers in the mud at Landcruiser Park. With both diff locks engaged we could push flat out up the straight back off a little and flick the front diff lock off just before the turn ... drift completely round the corner and once straight engage diff lock and floor it. Made for some interesting times as sometimes the diff would not disengage and we went straight ahead ..... with associated rush of adrenalin !!! As components become lighter and lighter in the front ends the locker becomes more of a diff breaker. Obviously the locker manufacturer can advise fitment and correct driving techniques to use them to full advantage without breaking anything. Regards Anthony
AnswerID: 558766

Reply By: Deleted User - Wednesday, May 07, 2003 at 00:38

Wednesday, May 07, 2003 at 00:38
Deep River, Bruce, Anthony - thanks mates - some great stuff here. Just back from my latest business trip. Next one scheduled for end Oct/early Nov. Hope to have BT for that trip. Fingers crossed. Griff
AnswerID: 558767

Reply By: Deleted User - Wednesday, May 07, 2003 at 00:39

Wednesday, May 07, 2003 at 00:39
Re front diff locks.

I substantially agree with Anthony in that they place a big load on CV joints, except that such loads are not that likely to be incurred in practice if this limitation is understood.

The front diff's self locking ability is mostly of benefit in slippery going - where loading is very light anyway and excess loading is not an issue. Further, in such going it pays to keep in a straight line where possible.

These diffs are also of enormous value in rocky going where, if one front wheel is hung up in the air, the locking diff will direct the drive to the other wheel that is on the ground. Here one needs to be careful with shock loadings.

The greatest overloading can occur in sand, but here diff locks are not of as much assistance anyway. Letting tyres down to 15 or so psi is hugely more effective. In any case, with a rear diff lock engaged, turning the front wheels off the straight ahead is counter-prodcutive as the locked rear diff will substantially preclude steering action (if not straight, the steered wheels will be dragged bodily sideways through the sand - diff lock or not).

I really do feel the front lock is worth having if you venture off road - and it certainly saved me on the Plenty Highway last month - I literally could not move the OKA without it - and I needed it for 300 km. Fortunately I was going in a straight line most of the time!

But as Anthony says the front diff lock must be used with caution. Unless very experienced indeed, use the front diff lock only to get yourslf out of trouble - never to get into a camping spot you coiuld not reach without it.

Toyota supply its own diff locks as an optional extra for the Troopy - but I truly believe the Air Lockers are a better bet - as they provide normal diff operation at all other times. As far as I am aware the ARB Air Lockers can be fitted to a new vehicle without invalidating the warranty. They need an air compressor - but you'll need that anyway if heading off-road
Collyn

AnswerID: 558768

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