Tow vechicle

Pics now in my Bushtracker Stuff - n - About, Album. Anthony Explore this Great Land ...Do it Easy ...Tow a Bushtracker

Hi Macka,
We left Brisbane on the 1/12/03 for a 13 month long trip. Currently we are in Melbourne, but we travelled down thru Hunter Valley, Canberra, Kooma, Lakes Entrance and Wilsons Promontory. When we left Redcliffe we went via the 'tip' and weighed the total of our van and car fully loaded. It was a bit of a shock, it came in at 6.92tonne! We drive a T/D 100 series landcruiser and so far it has not had a problem with the towing, just sometimes a little slow up really long windy hills. We are happy with its performance. I don't know when I will be able to check this site again but hope you find some help here.
Kerrie.

Hi Gary,
I am not disputing your take on things but just
because more torque is there doesn't mean using it all the time,therefore less
heat. The engine in my view is over engineered maximum torque is just that max
torque. I am not a hoon but believe very much in safety. The engine can then
handle the load put on it more safely. It is all up to the user and ultimately
to the owner of the machine how it is modified and used.
Regards
Macka

Totally agree with most of what you have said
Anthony was thinking larger exhaust not so sure that we agree on tolerances so I
beg to differ. Please see my earlier reply but if you think I'm wrong
O.K.
Macka

Thanks Anthony as usual you are right up there
Cazaly. I'll have to get it all now so we can have a coldie together. My
shout.
Regards
Macka

Thank you Kerrie just planning and researching I
would expect GVM weight about what you have said possibly more
as I have been thinking a 12,000 lb. winch. I
wonder if I'll need a bigger one.
Thanks again
enjoy our wonderful country
Macka

We're temporarily back in Sydney with fast internet access so are able to scan through all the posts. We picked up our 20 foot BT in early November 2002 and have been living/travelling in it since except for a few weeks visiting family. During that time we've been all the way down the east coast from BT and round to Portland then back up through the Grampians, down to Narracoorte, up the Murray to Mildura, back to Adelaide then up throught the Flinders, Birdsville Track, Innacmincka, Arkaroola, Woomera, Roxby Downs, up to the Oodnadatta Track and on to William Creek, back across to Coober Pedy and back to Oodnadatta. Then to Dalhousie Springs and Mt Dare and on across to Yulara and then Alice Springs. A pretty varied trip where we tend to go off the bitumen whenever we can. Our two vehicle is a base model 100 series LC with quite a wad of accessories including an after-market turbo installed by Berrima Diesel. It may be of interest if I comment on our experience in some of the areas raised in this discussion and others. Weight: Our BT is 2" taller than standard (we're more than that!) so the tare is 2620. With three tanks full and all our stuff we have to struggle to keep the gross below 3500 kg. Likewise the LC - with accessories - is near the limit, probably around 3200 kg. If we were buying today we would leave off the fourth tank and probably the air conditioner as we don't use powered sites that often. Handling: Initially we had some trouble with sway but last January we had heavy duty King springs fitted front and rear with PolyAir bags in the rear. We normally keep the bags at 20-25 psi when towing and in this mode find the rig runs very smoothly and you can forget the BT is there for most purposes. Speed: We have no trouble running a t 95-100 kph on good open highways like the Sturt or Stuart. Coming down from Taree to Sydney last week we came up the hill from the Hawkesbury quite happily at 85-90 Off-road performance: Mostly no problem. We managed the 'road' from Oodnadatta out to Dalhousie quite easily (though did get our only puncture there). A couple of weeks ago we got stuck in sand driving on the coast track from the Port Macquarie ferry up to Point Plomer; but got out easily once we dropped the tyres to 28 psi. Fuel consumption: Ranges from a best figure of 18 litres per 100 kilometres driving about 80 kmh on good highway to 28 in sandy desert conditions. Happy to provide more comments if anyone wants to know. Clive

G'day Clive, Your welcome to post whenever you get a chance ! Those awaiting delivery will read every word (twice) I'm sure !!! [smile] You might want to start a new thread with a suitable title and if anyone wants to ask a question can follow on from there .... I have one already !!! Sounds like a great trip, how did the BT go ...... ?? Regards Anthony Explore this Great Land ... Do it Easy ... Tow a Bushtracker

Hi Macka, Allow me to copy the text of Steven Gibbs (Bushtracker director) in answer to your question on a LC100 and a 20' Bushtracker (he was giving me his recommendation about [not] using my X5) His closing comment in this excerpt [in red] indicates he has more concerns with highway speeds than off road with his LC100 and 21 footer: ".... So here is the real issue on 20’: It is not about off-road, all four wheel drives are a tractor in low range gear off the road. It is more of a safety concern on the highway... The BMW is not a full sized tow vehicle on the global perspective, only here...<o:p></o:p> It is an issue of the length of wheelbase for leverage at high speed, when you have to make a radical maneuver to avoid an accident or a spilled load or a Bullock or something... The wheelbase of the BMW runs out of safety margin somewhere around 20’ ... Even my own 2000 Landcruiser is up on its maximum limit with my 21’ van. It is just just not safe if something happens to cause a radical move at 100 kph.. There is just not enough leverage to do it safely with the wheelbase of a Landcruiser...." The wheelbase of the X5 is only 30 millimetres shorter than an LC100, so it seems that EVERY inch counts!!!! Mike

Thank you Mike that's very interesting, I had
thought weight was the main problem i.e what the design engineer stipulates as
safe regarding the ability of engine,brakes, chassis etc.
Thanks I think I'm going to have to talk to an
engineer or something
Best regards
Macka

----- Original Message -----
From:
snoopy
To: Bushtracker Owners
Group
Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 8:53
PM
Subject: Re: Tow vechicle





New Message on Bushtracker Owners
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Tow
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Reply to Sender Recommend
Message 20 in
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From: snoopy



Hi
Macka,

Allow me to
copy the text of Steven Gibbs (Bushtracker director) in
answer to your question on a LC100 and a 20' Bushtracker (he was
giving me his recommendation about [not] using my X5) His
closing comment in this excerpt [in red] indicates he has more
concerns with highway speeds than off road with his LC100 and 21
footer:

".... So here is the real issue on 20’: It is not about
off-road, all four wheel drives are a tractor in low range gear
off the road. It is more of a safety concern
on the highway... The BMW is not a full sized
tow vehicle on the global perspective, only
here...<o:p></o:p>
It is an issue of the length of wheelbase
for leverage at high speed, when you have to make a radical
maneuver to avoid an accident or a spilled load or a Bullock or
something... The wheelbase of
the BMW runs out of safety margin somewhere around 20’ ...
Even my own 2000 Landcruiser is up
on its maximum limit with my 21’ van. It is
just just not safe if something happens to cause a radical move
at 100 kph.. There is just not enough
leverage to do it safely with the wheelbase of a
Landcruiser...."
The wheelbase
of the X5 is only 30 millimetres shorter than an LC100, so it
seems that EVERY inch counts!!!!
Mike
View other groups in this
category.

I have been towing with an LC 100, 4.2 Diesel with DTS Dynamic Turbo (not intercooled). It struggles a bit and returns 18 to 22l/100km. I have hooked up behind a LC100 fitted with a 6.5l Chevvy Diesel Turbo with high ratio diffs. It was better, but no where near as good as the latest LC100 4.7 V8 petrol which I have also tested with 2920kg of BT behind. It was brilliant! So, I'm taking delivery of a new one next Tuesday. I'll miss the sound and smell of diesels as I have had 60, 70, 80 and 100 series since 1980. Will let you know of fuel consumption later. One advantage though is that I will only be carrying one type of fuel, ULP for vehicle, tinnie and genni. [Your red storage (cellar) may be best amidships. Under our dining seat is the wheel arch and a space about 90mm wide (at bottom) tapering to about 150mm at top of wheel arch. Cut 15 lengths of 90mm PVC stormwater pipe, each 180mm long. Stand them up along this section and you have the perfect wine cellar. Even if you have consumed all but 3 bottles (time for refill) the bottles won't tip over. I have even laid extra bottles alongside the tops of the vertical ones - no problem] The above is a different thread which I used in comments for Andy in the folder "Large No. of BT's for sale" Some may be interested ? all the best..........Rob.

Before I chose a Landcruiser 100 Petrol V8 Auto, I towed my 5.75m BT with:

a) my old LC100 DTS Turbo 120kw & 300Nm to a test point on a 4% (1in 25) upgrade, reaching 80kmn/h in 3rd (there was nothing left after that.)

b) an F250 5.2l petrol auto which got to 90 at the test point and got to max 100 after that. (no more)

c) A LC100 with 6.5 Chev Turbo diesel with high ratio diffs got to 90 at the test point and would have got to 120 easily if I kept going in the 100km/h zone.(This is a $20,000 conversion mind you. and,

d) a LC100 V8 Petrol Auto (170kw & 410Nm) easily reached 100 at the test point and would reach 120 with ease beyond that.

I considered the LC100 Turbo (Factory) - 151kw & 430Nm but with less grunt and $10,000 more the option petered out, despite my love of diesels.

I also took a hard look at the Volkswagen Touareg V10TDi which puts out massive grunt at 230kw & 750Nm ! It has a towing capacity of 3500kg. However, there are some big minus's. The max ball weight was only 180kg (VW has since advised me that they are trying to increase this and they thought they could get it to around 240kg by the time the V10 is released in February. I told them they should be aiming at 10% of the towing capacity. It will be interesting to see what they come up with.

The Touareg has one of those stupid run-flat spare wheels under the floor. beneath where you want to put your storage drawers and engel. (equally stupid). They are now developing a swing arm for mounting a spare on the back. Then there's the 19 inch rims with low profile tyres (275.45.19) which I'm sure will go really well over cattle grids and bull dust covered corrugations. They are now considering an option of 17 inch rims and higher profile tyres.

The Touareg also has a very high price (around 130k), but its specs are pretty exciting. Compared to the LC100 V8 Auto, it is:-
Length:136mm shorter
Width: 12mm narrower
Height 187mm lower.
Wheelbase: 5mm longer.
Track Front: 25mm wider
Track Rear: 32mm wider.
Ground Clearance: 27mm higher and variable.
Kerb weight: 64kg lighter.
GVM: 180 kg lighter.
Turning Circle: 200mm tighter.

It has some goodies like 6 speed tiptronic transmission, variable height suspension, traction control, lockable centre and rear diffs, engine brake assist and a great sat-nav system.

By the way, one disadvantage that the yank tanks have is the long wheel base and large turning circle. Apart from the shopping centre carpark difficulties, I doubt whether you could negotiate some of the tight hair-pin corners on some of our mountain roads along the great divide. e.g. The Bridle Track near Hill End, Bunroy Junction near Corryong and the Summit in Brisbane National Forest, to name a few. The possibility of having to shuffle or reverse back to a turning point would be a little daunting. I'd be intersested to know if any Effie Boggers have tackled such terrain.

Hope the foregoing will assist tow vehicle selection for those in the market.

The deals that Toyota are giving at the moment suggest that the 120? series is not far off.

Cheers.........Rob

Re-Posted from "Messages To Managers"

From: tps57

I would like to know how you come to a decision on what one may need and how far to take this travelling to. As there is a concern about weight issues and the sort of 4x4 to use which I am along with my wife going through at the moment.We want some comforts but what process can we use if any. Thanks in advance Lance.

mineral oil is 130 deg C - what's synthetics top temp. Just trying to work out if synthetic justifies the extra cost. Cracker

Rob Indeed the F250 has a pretty ordinary turning circle & a long wheel base - the turning circle would be improved by setting the wheels in as per the Toyota. As a rule of thumb the wheels in the F250 are about a tyre width further apart than the big toorak tractors. Personally I like the odds on my side & when you look at the overturning forces & all those "moments" we have long since forgotten from our physics, the significantly greater length & width make for a much more stable towing platform. This is the compromise, as in life most decisions are, in the end, compromises; we would have stayed towing with our petrol 100 Series Toyota, which we still have, had we felt as safe as we do in the F250. Andy