Weight dist hitch - why

Submitted: Tuesday, Jan 20, 2004 at 00:37
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I have a standard (toyota) tow bar which I believe were made by Hayman reece or similar. My question is: Is a load equalising hitch required or indeed necessary - If the van is out of balance ( too much or too little ball weight) rather than wind up the hitch shouldn't you just make the effort and redistribute the load ? ( The exercise won't kill her) I will get BT to attach the van coupling on the underside of the A frame, to clear the tailgate( I think that was a TURIST tip ) but I need more advise on the tongue & or weight displacment hitches. Is anybody out their towing their BT with a bar + standard tongue on an 80 series ? Cracker
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Reply By: Noosa Fox - Tuesday, Jan 20, 2004 at 01:21

Tuesday, Jan 20, 2004 at 01:21
You must have wlked over the wrong persons grave to have had that much bad luck Gary. It will be interesting to see how good NRMA are. If possible see if you can get it repaired at BT as our repair job done down in Melbourne had to have a number of things redone at BT to get it back up to scratch. Brian
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AnswerID: 560853

Reply By: Deleted User - Tuesday, Jan 20, 2004 at 01:22

Tuesday, Jan 20, 2004 at 01:22
Bob, Whew ..... I thought I was going mad, well, madder anyway. [smile] I can fit a few bee's reproductive organs between coupling and gate .... well more like a single Silky Terriers !!! [grin] Gary, Geez I feel for ya !!! I still see the dents in my BT every time I pass it !! Sigh ! Hoping to get my hail damage repaired soon. Might wait til a few more storms pass ... we sure are getting some (last 7 days) in SE Qld. Anthony Explore this Great Land ...Do it Easy ...Tow a Bushtracker
AnswerID: 560854

Reply By: Deleted User - Tuesday, Jan 20, 2004 at 01:23

Tuesday, Jan 20, 2004 at 01:23
Hey,Turist! Extras? What extras? All of "my" stuff (Solar Reg, Charger/Inverter and controller, Microwave, Coffee Maker, lights) wasn't discussed at all cause it was not their supply, so they claimed they were not in a position to advise on such frippery. The fridge wasn't installed till much later, so in fact they had a lot LESS to tell us about. Had the vehicle in the yard with the full WD Hitch available. Wasn't set up for WDH, nor was it discussed. Just made clear that as it was my desire to use an (obviously unnecessary) WDH, it was my problem to solve. Neither was the fact mentioned that the toilet wasn't ready to rock & roll; no mains water connector supplied; no mention of 15amp mains power leads & plugs or water hoses required; stove pans and shelves ommitted; tanks not filled; no offer of a first 'run around the block' to familiarise with the tow feel & to set up the brake controller; but was advised that I was at the most dangerous time as I was probably underloaded & hence was too light on the ball weight. All in all not the finishing off I expected when dropping 100kiloquid. Goodness knows how newbies fare that have not come across the bogger site by delivery time. In an ad hoc sort of way they do fine. The staff and management are generally very helpful and friendly, and really want to help achieve a great result, but there appears to be no system or checklist for hand-over, so errors & omissions are inevitable. We had a more comprehensive experience with our $30k (before additions!) second hand 4x4. AFTER purchase the dealer offered to show us what it would do & took us 'rock climbing' in it at HIS risk. Unusual, but shows what is possible with a bit of thought. Happy to extol BT's excellence to all and sundry - what they do well, they do extraordinarily well, but where they fall down, they fall hard. E.g., as BT suggest factory visits to help assure people that they are getting the best, the idea is to leave a good impression. It sort of runs counter to the intention to have my wife and 76 year old father, on separate occasions, get up at 4 in the morning, travel all morning to get there, to be greeted at reception like we were totally unexpected, then wander around talking and deciding for hours and not even be offered a glass of water, much less a sit down in the client lounge over a cup of coffee. The odd look we got at 3 in the afternoon, when it became clear that nothing was going to be said about lunch, when we finally asked if there was anywhere around that we could eat, made us feel that it was a really weird request & that no-one had ever asked, "Where can we eat?" before. But who needs to really look after clients when they are lined up till Christmas. Right? No need to defend BT against any and all criticism, because I still love 'em. Eccentrics tickle my fancy. Griff
AnswerID: 560855

Reply By: Turist - Tuesday, Jan 20, 2004 at 01:24

Tuesday, Jan 20, 2004 at 01:24
OK, but did inverting the coupling fix your other problem?
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Reply By: Luvntravln - Tuesday, Jan 20, 2004 at 01:25

Tuesday, Jan 20, 2004 at 01:25
Griff, Even though this thread is supposed to be about WDH, must admit you hit on a sore spot with Jackie and me. I have been in business all of my life and from a customer convenience/relations standpoint I have never been so poorly treated in all of my experience. Companies selling products far less expensive treat you better. Steve insists that you visit the factory yet there is hardly anywhere to sit, there is no cold water machine in a central location much less any cold water (we were given some warm water after asking), there is no customer coffee area, and frankly I was amazed. Nothing I am writing is a surprise to BTI because I have written to Steve that if I was looking for work I would apply to be Director of Customer Relations - they make a fantastic product. Regarding having customers lined up until Christmas is probably a large part of the problem - they don't think it is a problem! It is like the man who has so much money he doesn't know what to do with all his money; at least he can look in the mirror and say he would rather have his problems than the problems of someone who doesn't have much money. There are good problems and bad problems; BTI has good problems and all I can say is "Good on 'em" (however you spell the Aussie expression ). tgintl/jay
AnswerID: 560857

Reply By: Luvntravln - Tuesday, Jan 20, 2004 at 01:26

Tuesday, Jan 20, 2004 at 01:26
OK Let's pull this back to WDH. Went to Ford yesterday to finalize our "beast" and the dealer is unable to source a Reese 54970. Anybody have a source so I can pass it on to my dealer? Thanks tgintl/jay
AnswerID: 560858

Reply By: Deleted User - Tuesday, Jan 20, 2004 at 01:27

Tuesday, Jan 20, 2004 at 01:27
Jay, I have talked with the importer/supplier about the Yanky Reese 54970 and there are none available as he has to bring in 100 in a container to make it viable with freight costs etc. With my experience bringing in single imports for my Stingray heavy or bulky items attract exorbitant freight bills .... especially since S11. Yanky Reese 67509 ARE available and have a 340kg upforce as against the 450kg upforce of the 54970. These would be suitable for a 3500kg BT ..they would be at their upper limit at 340kg upforce but this is still in their working range. Care would have to be taken when the angle between the vehicle and BT lessen from 180 deg as they are at their limit. As the vehicle angles up more force is applied to the bars. I remember consulting with a trailer chassis designer some 20 years ago he was a qualified mechanical engineer and his formula for ballweight was 5-8 % depending on axle type and length from centreline of axle to hitch point. Your BT at 3500kg gives 175kg and 280kg at 5 and 8 % respectively. Even at 10% the 67509 is still suitable but at its limit. I run 250kg ballweight on my BT at 3000kg and my bars are the Aust Reese WDH 340kg upforce. Obviously the 54970 (1000lb/450kg) model would be better when going up a steep incline with bars attached but the available model at (750lb/340kg) would get you on the road. Keep trying to find the 54970 but if not successful you can grab a 67509 from ... Probar at 305 Morayfield Rd, Morayfield. Contact number is 07 5428 0699. RRetail price for the 67509 model is $495. Regards Anthony Explore this Great Land ...Do it Easy ...Tow a Bushtracker
AnswerID: 560859

Reply By: Luvntravln - Tuesday, Jan 20, 2004 at 01:28

Tuesday, Jan 20, 2004 at 01:28
Anthony, when you include descriptive phrases like "they would be at their upper limit ", "Care would have to be taken ", "would be better when going up a steep incline with bars attached " I get more than a little nervous. Seems to me that if I can find the 54970 I should go with the HR until I can replace it with the 54970. Thoughts? tgintl/jay
AnswerID: 560860

Reply By: Luvntravln - Tuesday, Jan 20, 2004 at 01:29

Tuesday, Jan 20, 2004 at 01:29
Oops - if I can't find the 54970 I will go with the HR. tgintl/jay
AnswerID: 560861

Reply By: Deleted User - Tuesday, Jan 20, 2004 at 01:30

Tuesday, Jan 20, 2004 at 01:30
Jay, No need to be that nervous ...[smile] the worst that can happen is the "U" bolt threads attaching the chain to the bars will fail or the bars will be bent beyond their elastic limit. If you are using the American Reese type the bars cant fall out ..they are held captive by an annular groove in the bar end. If the bars rotate 90 deg towards the front before you stop they will come out. This will only be a problem when you are confronted with a steep incline that takes the vehicle up substantially at the front before the A-frame starts to rise. 98 % of the time it would be fine but some areas might need caution ... land contours, creek causeway exits etc. Over the next few days I'll try to have a chat with the Hayman Reese tech guy about running 750lb bars at 750lb. Undulations in the road at 100 kph might even stress the WDH if it is at its limit ...Although you would think a good margin is built in to avoid failure. The 750lb might have been stress tested to 1500-2000lb before failure ...soon find out, I hope !! Dont forget ...I'm not saying there are BT out there that dont have 1000lb WDH on ... but most are 750lb models including the American Reese of Greg's that you looked over. I'm sure Helen told me it was a 750lb model ...could be mistaken. Bob, Brian and Pete have big BT's and their bars are only 750lb models I'm sure .... guys ????? Between these guys they sure have some red dust in their boots !!! Regards Anthony Explore this Great Land ...Do it Easy ...Tow a Bushtracker
AnswerID: 560862

Reply By: Luvntravln - Tuesday, Jan 20, 2004 at 01:31

Tuesday, Jan 20, 2004 at 01:31
Anthonly, the Probar number appears to be their fax number. tgintl/jay
AnswerID: 560863

Reply By: Luvntravln - Tuesday, Jan 20, 2004 at 01:32

Tuesday, Jan 20, 2004 at 01:32
Anthony: My "new" understanding is that most of the HR WDH fitted are the 74504 which has a 350 kg upforce. I have spoken with Melbourne Towbar and they are going to research the Reece 54970. I have told them to assume an F-250 weighing 4200kg, BT at 3500kg, and a ball weight of 350+kg. Will advise. tgintl/jay PS: there is now a tgintl2/jackie as an official member - look out
AnswerID: 560864

Reply By: Deleted User - Tuesday, Jan 20, 2004 at 01:33

Tuesday, Jan 20, 2004 at 01:33
In a recent posting I commented that David Pentreath's WDH was desirable off-road but possibly overkill if used only on tarmac roads. I also noted that it lacks the progressive 'correction' of a standard hitch during severe pitching. I'd like to clarify the above, and need to modify my comment re behaviour on severe pitching. David's hitch is primarily devised to overcome the problem of a standard hitch overly stressing itself (and what it's attached to) whilst traversing creek crossings etc. It still works very effectively on good roads. The design works by maintaining a constant 'lift' (derived from air pressure via a pressure tank and actuating bellows). The air passage between the actuating bellows and the tank is quite small diameter and David quite correctly points out that this restriction will in fact cause the hitch's correcting response to be more or less proportional to the rate of change of pitching movement. This effect will also introduce some very desirable damping into the system and this will assist disipate the pitching energy. Collyn Rivers
AnswerID: 560865

Reply By: Deleted User - Tuesday, Jan 20, 2004 at 01:34

Tuesday, Jan 20, 2004 at 01:34
Anthony, Is bigger better in the area of WDH bars or are we in the area of weight increase ? This is what I was asking in the stay out of Woolongong thread. It's been mixed up somehow. Macka
AnswerID: 560866

Reply By: Deleted User - Tuesday, Jan 20, 2004 at 01:35

Tuesday, Jan 20, 2004 at 01:35
Macka, WDH for our purpose come in 500lb (227kg), 750lb (340kg) and 1000lb (453kg) from various manufacturers around the globe. The maximum ballweight that is applied determines the bars to use .... they become more expensive as the weight class increases. No need to pay for more than you need. It is a fact of life that WD hitches wear the trunnions or where the bars contact any other metal (head) as they apply a force which is taken up by reasonably large contact areas for the force applied. So a set of bars applying 340kg upforce wear more than a set applying 240kg upforce with the same size trunnions and head. This can give the impression that buying the 453kg set to offset a 240kg ballweight will wear less than a 340kg set for 240kg ...in fact it does wear less all things equal between the two. The problem is the cost of the 453kg set compared to 340kg set might be $300 dollars or more .... thats a lot of wear $300 .... This is my opinion only but I believe that WDH bars have a sweet spot that gives the best wear value and maintains the wallet by only paying for what is needed. That sweetspot is between 50 -80 % of the weight of the particular model. As I said in another post if running them at their limit might not leave anywhere to go if the front of the vehicle goes up and van stays level exceeding the bars elastic limit. When I get a chance I'll chat with HR about it ...there might be a HUGE margin. As an example my WDH on my BT is a 343kg model with say a sweet spot between 170kg and 275 kg ...my ballweight is around 230-245kg. Towing a BT or any combination at 7 tonne is such a serious business that I would consult Hayman Reese or the particular manufacturer before purchasing anything and discuss your vehicle/van models and weights with them. Regards Anthony Explore this Great Land ...Do it Easy ...Tow a Bushtracker
AnswerID: 560867

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