Inverters & Chargers - TGINTL has decided!

Submitted: Thursday, Feb 05, 2004 at 10:04
ThreadID: 120384 Views:1797 Replies:5 FollowUps:0
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OK, TripnTaps battery thread has 61 posts; Andy's battery charger setup had 24 posts; Motley_Pete's of all things electrical had 28 posts; and that is what appear on the opening page!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you all for the tremendous education - and that doesn't include the discussions that resulted from my posts quoting BTI. We have this date decided and ordered the Xantrex 1800i and two TrueCharge40s to be installed in parallel. All to be purchased from and installed by BTI. After I completed the process on the phone with Tracy I received the following email from Steve: "We cannot address the BOG site directly, as there would be to much to chase
down with misconceptions, questions, partly correct or incorrect
perspectives, and it would be a full time job... Like trying to explain
technology to a solar provider with only a partial perspective of 240 mains
charging systems that swears by the big 6 volt heavy plate golf cart
batteries.. He is right by virtue of his limited application, but wrong in
the larger context, because his batteries would eat nearly one full amp each
to just excite the plates enough to begin accepting a charge in the solar
application.... The problem is that there are to many "Experts" that all
have a limited point of view lacking the broader perspective and experience
in the field that we have. They may have an excellent household application
for a piece of equipment that would not survive the vigor's of travel on the
corrugation.... Or something else like that, they would be absolutely right
for their limited perspective or application, but absolutely wrong the
broader context of the Bushtracker in the field... The BOG site for us would
bog down in endless contests with well meaning people that just did not have
the broad perspective and experience, but would not like to lose face with
their peers and would want to argue their case.... If we did not answer the
issue it would be accepted as fact, if we did answer- Half the time we would
get into arguments, not because the other party was not well meaning, just
lacking the broader perspective or experience or technological
understanding...

Like now, the question of why if our chargers are good in the Outback, do
they not like some generators... I could explain on an oscilloscope the AC
pattern of Hertz (frequency variation) and how our chargers will accept the
slower changes on the transmission lines of the Outback, but not the 50
times a second of a generator with an extra spike in the peak of the
individual frequency of each wave of a generator that has a dirty or low
grade power generation... I would get forty seven more questions from people
that did not know or had ever seen an oscilloscope or did not like the
answer or did not know what hertz meant.... I just do not have the time to
do that on mass, as it would be a full time job to prove it all to them.....
On a continual basis.... If anyone is serious they can contact us with
questions, just not on a chat forum.... To many idle hands breed mischief..

Or here on your switch mode: "You said to Tracy that "we are using the
switch mode type of inverter with a low failure rate, so you will take your
chances with the switch mode chargers"... That is way out of context of the
problem... First of all it is a misnomer to compare both their electronic
function as "switch mode" in that it is not the same in the two components,
but that is besides the point... Yes they are fully electronic voltage
synthesizing components, but in complete different styles and functions...
Yes similiar in construction, so you can argue immune from the corrugation-
However that is not our experience in the field... AND, the inverters are
only exposed to a stable power supply from within, WHERE THE CHARGERS ARE EXPOSED DIRECTLY TO THE VOLTAGE VARIATIONS AND SPIKES ON REMOTE TRANSMISSION LINES... AND THE INVERTERS ARE NOT... To argue them comparable in reliability is not correct from an engineering perspective... Further: That is the reason we engineered the automatic switchng of the inverters in the first place, not so that all the outlets in the van automatically are changed over that is just a side benefit, BUT TO AUTOMATICALLY ISOLATE THE INVERTER FROM THE VOLTAGE SPIKES THAT WERE DESTROYING THEM FRYING THE INTERNAL COMPONENTS....as people would err and leave them on or use them plugged into outside power and we were getting failures.

My previous quote applies in this case exactly.. The use of full
electronic inverters, has no bearing what so ever on the switch mode
chargers. Your hypothesis is incorrect, not because you are not well
meaning, but because you may be lacking the full engineering experience and
perspective... And if I were you I would not put your arguement about "we
are using switch mode inverters already with success so the chargers must be
OK," on the BOG site as it will be misleading to many...

Now, we are going to put in the two switch mode units for you, and that
is final, you will be our new test, but I would not think you are doing the
right thing if you advise others to do such because "we are already using
switch mode inverters so it must be alright"... OK?"

Operating in good faith, for the well being of all, stg" I responded that Chris McClellan from Xantrex said that as far as he was concerned the units would not fail from use in the outback; therefore given his representations and the manufacturer's warranty I will be happy to be the BTI test case. In the final analysis each of us has to do his own due dilligence and make his own decision. I think it is important to hear what Steve believes because he does have a significant amount of experience. I truly understand his reluctance due to time committments to participate directly; I still welcome his and Tracy's participation/comments or attendance at Bogger functions. Cheers, tgintl/jay
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Reply By: Noosa Fox - Thursday, Feb 05, 2004 at 10:06

Thursday, Feb 05, 2004 at 10:06
Jay, You have made so many changes in your plans for this caravan, are you sure that this is your final decision? You must be driving Steve crazy with all your e-mails and changes . I don't know enough about all this new technology to make any comments, all I know is what BTI supplied me nearly 3 years ago is working well and I have no desire to change it. Brian
Enjoying the friendship of BOG members

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AnswerID: 561106

Reply By: Deleted User - Thursday, Feb 05, 2004 at 10:07

Thursday, Feb 05, 2004 at 10:07
Steve, You said, <start> The BOG site for us would bog down in endless contests with well meaning people that just did not have the broad perspective and experience, but would not like to lose face with their peers and would want to argue their case.... If we did not answer the issue it would be accepted as fact, if we did answer- Half the time we would
get into arguments, not because the other party was not well meaning, just lacking the broader perspective or experience or technological understanding... <end> Point taken here and it would possibly happen ...although I'd say the managers would nip this in the bud if it did !!! They are fair but tough ..... Also, the other side is ... most in here own a BT or are about to, we are "not" not well meaning ...nor all inexperienced ...nor all unable to understand technology ...nor collectively dumb. <start> On a continual basis.... If anyone is serious they can contact us with
questions, just not on a chat forum.... To many idle hands breed mischief..
<end> Have you ever thought why so many people in the group ask questions ?? Are the answers they ask at BTi not answered adequately ??? Are they given the short answer on the phone and made to feel like they are disrupting the flow ??? Are you so busy the questions are not being answered to peoples satisfaction ?? To some people you may seem overbearing and intimidating, they then keep their 10 perceived silly questions for another time or place..... or a place it doesnt interrupt BTi ...... like B.O.G. I spent many thousands of hard earned dollars on my BT and I'm bloody proud of it ... so is every one in here !!! I show it off to any that want to look and there have been plenty .... its a Bushtracker. Questions will still be asked in here ..... and answered to the best of everyones ability if they want to answer. If it is wrong ...its wrong and we learn. People are trying to help others and contribute to their Bushtracker Experience to make it as great as their own. If it is a problem for BTi maybe the managers should have a round table and discuss banning any technical specification questions of BT's in the forum (hard to implement and a bit harsh maybe) .... e-mail or phone for Bob, Pete, Brian, Mine are available freely if you need to discuss anything. It is not the intention of the B.O.G. to disrupt BTi in any way. If it is a solution needs to be found. You make'm ... we all enjoy them !!! Regards Anthony Explore this Great Land ...Do it Easy ...Tow a Bushtracker
AnswerID: 561107

Reply By: Luvntravln - Thursday, Feb 05, 2004 at 10:08

Thursday, Feb 05, 2004 at 10:08
Brian, nope! See posting below from BTI and my request to Xantrex. This is a very important topic - battery chargers - to many already owning a BT, and to many soon to own a BT. Yes, you are very happy with your charger and I am very swayed by that fact and that others too are very happy. That doesn't mean there isn't a better way to reinvent the wheel and obtain a better charging regime and longer battery life. Anthony, I think you should cc: your post directly to Steve by email. Agree with your comments and the appropriateness of posting them on the site. I would strongly oppose the banning of technical discussions. If it weren't for the technical discussions I might still be over in the general caravaners forum and not the pending owner of a BT with a strong case of the BATTS. Cheers, tgintl/jay
AnswerID: 561108

Reply By: Deleted User - Thursday, Feb 05, 2004 at 10:09

Thursday, Feb 05, 2004 at 10:09
Brian, It's Jay's $100,000. He should be able to ask and change all he wants !!! Most lay awake at night thinking about it and they're decisions that he has to sit in for 10 years ! [smile] Anthony Explore this Great Land ...Do it Easy ...Tow a Bushtracker
AnswerID: 561109

Reply By: Deleted User - Thursday, Feb 05, 2004 at 10:10

Thursday, Feb 05, 2004 at 10:10
Seems to me like there are people on this forum who have
forgotten that the customer is always right, even when he or she is wrong. What makes the customer always right, his or her cheque
book !<o:p></o:p>

David<o:p></o:p>

<o:p> </o:p>



AnswerID: 561110

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