manual v automatic

Submitted: Thursday, Mar 18, 2004 at 21:58
ThreadID: 120456 Views:1962 Replies:8 FollowUps:0
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A question to the group
We have always owned 4x4 manuals, recently on a new
release 4x4 vehicles it was now more popular to drive auto's. As we have never
towed anything in an auto what do the Boggers people most use. It would take a
lot of convincing for us to change
Bonnidowns46
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Reply By: Suncoasters - Thursday, Mar 18, 2004 at 22:00

Thursday, Mar 18, 2004 at 22:00
For what it is worth I have used an auto Turbo Diesel 4WD for the last five years towing vans up to 24ft and will never go back to a manual. IMHO they are less stressful on both the vehicle and the driver. They are slightly less fuel efficient than a manual, but not the difference is not great.

David
AnswerID: 561572

Reply By: Turist - Thursday, Mar 18, 2004 at 22:01

Thursday, Mar 18, 2004 at 22:01
Y' can't roll a fag, crack a tinnie and hang on to the mobile while y'r stirrin' a gearstick.
Go auto.

Seriously, we have tried both, will not go back to stick stirring.
Just make sure that you have plenty of engine grunt for the van.

Regards
Turist
"Do It While You Can"
Nobody is getting any younger.

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AnswerID: 561573

Reply By: Deleted User - Thursday, Mar 18, 2004 at 22:02

Thursday, Mar 18, 2004 at 22:02
An auto box because of its torque converter stall speed will place the engine in the power/torque area at takeoff/downshifting where as a manual, after you let the clutch out, the revs have to climb to the sweet spot. This becomes even more apparent in a turbo charged engine because of "turbo lag" at low revs. The exhaust gas has to build to drive the intake turbine, the time taken to build boost is lag. Where this becomes obvious is trying to do a hill start on a steep hill, in high range, towing 3000kg with a manual box turbo diesel and having to slip the clutch. To give an example how this is tuned, in a modern vehicle, to engine characteristics the 7.3L diesel turbo effie make max torque at 1800rpm and max power at 2600rpm so keeping the engine revs in this band gives max pull and ease on the engine/drivetrain. The effie has a 2400rpm stall converter so from a dead start you hit the pedal and the revs climb to the stall speed virtually making lag disappear compared to a manual. This of course is applicable in any gear and coupled with auto-downshifting makes them hard to beat for towing. Also once torque lock-up is achieved the fuel consumption is greatly improved from the older auto boxes. Anthony Explore this Great land ...Do it Easy ...Tow a Bushtracker
AnswerID: 561574

Reply By: Deleted User - Thursday, Mar 18, 2004 at 22:03

Thursday, Mar 18, 2004 at 22:03
In addition...... Sand, ice and mud driving - auto much less inclined to spin off or dig holes & bury yourself. Stall recoveries MUCH, MUCH, MUCH safer and less stressful. In case you don't know what a stall recovery is, here goes: You are going up a steep hill on a track. You've chosen the wrong gear (too tall), or the track conditions are causing you to loose traction. You do NOT slap it into reverse on the fly (especially with a 6 or 7 tonne rig!) You've got to control your descent (you were neeeeeearly at the top, so you have to manage steering and speed and that nasty corner at the bottom). Foot off accelerator. Don't touch the clutch!!!!!! Push in the brake till the engine stalls in gear. Pull on hand brake. Ask passengers to exit, chock wheels & observe/guide. Get out & consider strategy. When ready, get in, belt up and engage clutch & put it in reverse. Have passenger remove chocks. With engine in gear and WITHOUT TOUCHING CLUTCH start engine. Without touching clutch, reverse down feathering brakes all the way. Sound weird and counter-intuitive? Without training do you really trust yourself to stall & start your precious engine without hitting the clutch? Why is all this necessary? Because if you don't do it this way there's every chance you will loose it big time because you won't be able to get it back in gear once you've popped the clutch. Its remarkable how quickly you can find yourself out of control in a 7 tonne rig going backwards, out of gear with no engine braking & foot brakes not up to the task. All the above is the un-natural, weird proceedure for stick shift. In auto, not even necessary to turn engine off. Just hit brakes (slam into P if you want think time), then slip into reverse and ease it on down. I'll take auto thanks. Griff
AnswerID: 561575

Reply By: Bushtracker42 - Thursday, Mar 18, 2004 at 22:04

Thursday, Mar 18, 2004 at 22:04
I went for the manual as I always liked manuals and Toyota only
had a 4 speed Auto at the time (+ cheaper). On 4WD decents was one of my
concerns, especially holding back the BT although mainly in some tougher
separate 4WDing. There is nothing like the manual in these circumstances and stall
recoveries are maybe not quite an Auto for stress, but very easy as with the turbo
diesel with only a need to turn it off (stalling is usually impossible uphill)
and a no throttle restart required once you change gear.



Changine gear up a steep hill with 3 tonne on I
thought may be issue but with heaps of momentum, fine.



I’d like an Auto hooking up the van as you need
small movements to get the pin in easily. I also make sure I run through Sydney
real early or late in case I get stuck on some hill starts back from traffic
lights. An Auto would solve this, although I would still run through Sydney
early/late.



Next time ??? - Probably an Auto. I’m not going
to rush out though, and may be keeping the manual for many years yet, unless
Toyota bring out a 4.6 litre 550Nm T/D with 6 speed Auto, in which case …..




----------------------

Gary Harding

TriSys Engineering/III





AnswerID: 561576

Reply By: Paul and Barb - Thursday, Mar 18, 2004 at 22:05

Thursday, Mar 18, 2004 at 22:05
I've towed a van around with a manual 4WD years ago, however the last 3 vehicles, all 4WD's, have been auto and I find that they are great. Like you I had my doubts when going to auto, but they really are the best thing for towing. Paul
AnswerID: 561577

Reply By: Deleted User - Thursday, Mar 18, 2004 at 22:06

Thursday, Mar 18, 2004 at 22:06
G'day Could not resist this one - are manual 4x4s still manufactured? In the rough or towing, once you use a 4x4 auto you too will begin to ask this question: why? Yes, yes, I know, because there are people out there who will buy them...... Myles
AnswerID: 561578

Reply By: Deleted User - Thursday, Mar 18, 2004 at 22:07

Thursday, Mar 18, 2004 at 22:07
Thanks for your reply's
Yes we still drive manuals,down on the farm. I
think it's that rev head in us all that we like changing gears, but only in the
my Patrol. We are getting older and I for one would like to see a change.

The Tractors are all fully automatic, Machinery
with all the latest innovations, The next new Patrol or Landcruiser we WILL
take a serious look at Auto's

Bonnidowns
AnswerID: 561579

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