Safari Dtronic

Stephen,
I've been running the Dtronic on my 2003 LC100 TD auto for a few months and
have towed the BT over a few trips with it. The torque improvement is very
noticeable, it was well worth the cost. Consumption: cruising around 90 -
100 kph and fully laden, I use 15 L/100 km, around town 11 L/100km, can't
complain about those figures at all. I don't believe that the 23% or so
increased torque will have an adverse affect on any vehicle components
provided you drive sensibly.
Incidentally, you can easily install it yourself in 15 minutes and save the
rediculous $50 that the retailers charge.

David



-----Original Message-----
From: Swaite2 [mailto:swaite@interworx.com.au]
Sent: Wednesday, 7 July 2004 3:16 PM
To: Bushtracker Owners Group
Subject: Safari Dtronic

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New Message on Bushtracker Owners Group

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From: Swaite2
Message 1 in Discussion

Does anyone have any info on a Safari Dtronic chip fitted to a T/C 100
series L/C with auto trans? Any problems with increased torque on
transmission and running gear while towing a 20' BT. Thanks, Stephen

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From TGINTL using Bushtracker 18 internet connection: I looked into a chip for my F250 and was told by Ford that installation of a chip would void the warranty - end of discussion. I would suggest that any vehicle in warranty would result in the same determination. Call Toyota or Nissan before you change anything to a vehicle in warranty. tgintl/jay

This is what the relevant legislation says:

The fitment of aftermarket accessories or performance enhancing products
does not in itself void manufacturer's warranty. Owners who choose to
enhance their vehicles whilst still under manufacturer's warranty do so at
their own risk; but are covered by legislation under the Federal Trade
Practices Act. If a modification can be proven to be the singular cause of a
failure, only then can a manufacturer legally refuse a claim.


-----Original Message-----
From: Bushtracker18 [mailto:anthony@gil.com.au]
Sent: Thursday, 8 July 2004 11:02 AM
To: Bushtracker Owners Group
Subject: Re: Safari Dtronic

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New Message on Bushtracker Owners Group

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From: Bushtracker18
Message 3 in Discussion

From TGINTL using Bushtracker 18 internet connection: I looked into a chip
for my F250 and was told by Ford that installation of a chip would void the
warranty - end of discussion. I would suggest that any vehicle in warranty
would result in the same determination. Call Toyota or Nissan before you
change anything to a vehicle in warranty. tgintl/jay

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I am still in the ‘considering’ stage,
and impact on reliability was the main hold back. Besides the strain on the
drive, the only other comment I found when I first looked into it was the
possibility of increased temperatures. As I take it easy towing, it was
this that has swayed me to hold back.



----------------------

Gary Harding

TriSys Engineering/III

Can I chuck 10 cents in the bucket .... Most aftermarket chips increase power by raising turbocharger boost levels and/or re-mapping the fuel curve. This raises the power levels and its a fact of life if you raise power levels you raise heat levels. If the increase in heat (both engine operating temp, exhaust gas temp, possibly trans temp and eng oil temp) is severe and is not catered for, engine (but more significantly turbo) longevity is reduced. I have looked at aftermarket chips/controllers for my F250 extensively and most supply some caveats to using increased power levels via their controllers. Some of these caveats are very serious and should be adhered to .... as an example .... Profile 1. Gives 150Nm increase (22%) and can be used for medium towing. If using for heavy towing an Exhaust Gas Temp gauge should be fitted to monitor EGT and the exhaust enlarged to help lower EGT if excessive. Profile2. Gives 196 Nm increase (28%) Towing should be limited to 4000lb (1800kg) an Exhaust Gas Temp gauge and larger exhaust MUST be fitted. Profile3. Gives 257Nm increase (37%) No Towing allowed. An EGT gauge and larger exhaust MUST be fitted. Engine to be driven via Exhaust Gas Temps. A turbocharger is a heat absorbing device not a heat producing one so gets very hot. Excessive heat on the exhaust turbine is cumulative i.e. if 1300 deg F starts to allow blades to bend ..repeated levels at 1100 deg F can still cause failure over time. I'm certainly not saying dont fit an aftermarket chip just ask the right questions of the chip manufacturer supplier. For example ...Can I tow at max GCM with this chip ? Have you done Exhaust Gas temps before and after adding chip ? Did you take EGT's towing 3500kg up a mountain range ? If the temps are up do I need to open up the exhaust to lower them as best it can ? How does the radiator capacity hold up under increased power levels with the chip ? How about at the radiator controlling heat with a GCM max load on ...and the chip ...and the auto oil running through the radiator ? Another one most people forget is that with increased power levels you get increased heat levels in the intercooler and the intercooler sits smack bang in front of the radiator .... did the intercooler temps go up post chip install ? If you really want to fit a chip for more power and tow a BT I'd fit a EGT gauge and keep an eye on temp ..if it gets to hot you can always back off a bit to cool it. If an auto I'd fit a trans temp as well .... if the radiator temp goes up even slightly the trans temp will rise as well. Increased heat levels could also have an effect on eng oil temp and a cooler might have to be fitted. Danger level for TIT (turbo inlet temp) is about 1270 deg F ...you will be border line here and most likely will be killing turbine blades. 1350 -1400 deg F and you'll be killing exhaust valves very quick .... 1650 deg F plus and the motor will grenade. Anthony Explore this Great Land ...Do it Easy ...Tow a Bushtracker

Personally we like the additional power from the chip. There must be many, probably tens of, thousands of these installed in the USA yet I have found very few negative comments in the US web pages/forums. If you ask Ford, Nissan or Toyota et al about any after market installation their answer is the same - "we do not support any modifications" and "any modifications may void your warranty" A Turbo Timer is a modification yet Ford recommend idling the engine up to ten minutes after a high speed run? While I do not doubt Anthony's warning is correct, when we towed our BT with a 100 Series Petrol Landcruiser the auto transmission got so hot some days that the metal of the selector was almost unpleasantly hot & we ran the aircon max most of the time. The F250 radiator temperature gauge justs sits pretty steady under all conditions & we certainly have never gone close to needing the aircon on max - day in day out the cabin temp remains much the same. Of course it may just be a better airconditioner. Anthony is no doubt spot-on in warning that Oil Temperature measurement is really necessary & we will action this in the next few months. This is one of those discussions where everyone is probably more or less correct & only time will tell us who was more so, there are two others I know towing BT's who have chips fitted - both big vans so we will get some sort of definitive answer in time, maybe years? Andy

Andy



You may be right, but some impacts are not
immediately obvious, and many effects are not readable in any gauge. Just because
your cooling system is maintaining temperature, does not mean no added heat
stresses/increased wear.



For me I am considering however long term. I
don’t know how may km you will do before changing cars. For me I want the
vehicle to be the best possible when I buy out the lease in 2 years (expecting 220,000km).
I then will be happy to hit the 4WDing a bit more and hope to still have the
vehicle with 500,000 km.



----------------------

Gary Harding

TriSys Engineering/III

The F250 7.3 Powerstroke as standard puts itself in a better league for towing by virtue of its "towing" protection from heat. As a side effect I get 700Nm of torque at 1800 ...YUM !!! [smile] In the USA they are termed Super Duty. As a side note the F250 in the USA comes with a front and rear hydraulic snow plough option. The engine runs 14 litres of oil and has a massive engine oil cooler on the left side of the engine. The powersteering/hydraulic brake booster system has a large cooler mounted up front. The auto trans runs its oil (as most do) through the radiator to warm the trans quickly and then cool (if temp goes above water temp) ....it has a massive cooler up front and runs a Cooler Bypass Valve System. The CBV system blocks oil to the cooler until a thermostat opens the valve to allow oil to the cooler. This system has a few advantages for towing and trans life. It allows the trans to warm up as quickly as possible via hot radiator water, something we do want when hooking 3500kg up and driving off in the middle of winter. Then, if the trans heats up the valve opens and it sends oil to the cooler ....say, middle of summer .... and pulling up Toowoomba range. It only opens the cooler system when needed and stops over cooling in cold winter areas. As far as chips and engine life is concerned its really an unknown quantity and depends on how it is driven with the chip as well. I equate the loss with the power increase. If the manufacturer has set power levels via boost and fuel to give say 600,000k service life in a diesel and you increase it 23 % it would be reasonable to assume a 23% loss (minimum) in engine life. Therefore an engine life drops from 600k to 450k and with the extra power it might be worth that compromise. Imagine if Toyota/Nissan/Ford could reliably gain a 23% plus increase in torque from a chip they could make for $50 ..... especially as some chip makers claim better economy and lower emissions ! They could just do it via the ECU with a boost/fuel increase in the mapping. In a turbocharged diesel engine Ex Gas Temp is the prime thing to keep within boundaries.... that in turn keeps oil temp down. Vehicle makers use it to tune fuel curves ...Mack,Volvo, Cummins etc use it to protect the engine. Back in my oil company days the fleet of Mack trucks were protected from drivers shutting them down with hot engine/turbos by a pyrometer. They would come into the terminal and switch off the key and walk away ..the pyrometer would idle the engine until a safe temp and then auto shut-off. Anyone want to invent that for the turbo diesels we use ...you would be on a winner ! Imagine pulling up after a long haul with the BT on ..turn off walk away and when the engine oil and turbo temp are safe it shuts off like the turbo timer. Keep it under $200 and use quality components .... I'll take one !!! Anyone got any spare cash ( investment capital) for the world patent ..... [smile] Anthony Explore this Great Land ...Do it Easy ...Tow a Bushtracker

Fellahs, I'm way out of my depth here but am interested in the discussion as economy of travel is from my perspective a bonus to the ease and safety issues re which tow vehicle we choose to tow with (again economics come in to this reality) This being said we have been discussing the pros of F250 (even if the son in law will disown us!!) and this morning was talking to our local Ford dealer/owner who has an effie and pulls around a 5th wheeler with his. Somehow - I was told - legally - he can tow up to 4.5 tonne and he did put in this 'super chip' and claims it made a heck of a difference. His 'economy' with this huge 5th wheeler is 23l/100km. For what its worth it was also stated that if this super chip is removed everything goes back to 'normal'. If you can fill in the gaps, I'd appreciate it cause we're just in the talking stage here! Cheers, Helen

Helen, Fifth wheelers come into a category all of their own for towing as they are not connected to a towbar and therefore dont have a ballweight to apply rearward of the rear axle. Fifth wheelers connect to a hitch/pedestal forward of the rear axle ,that is, between the axles so the applied weight is the same as when you climb on board. The limit is the vehicles GVM not a ballweight limit set by towbar/chassis design strength. This is why on the current issue of one of caravan mags you can see a Navara ute hitched up to huge 5th wheeler for the size of the vehicle. Chips that increase horsepower can be taken out and the ecu goes back to factory settings by replacing factory chip. In some instances it might have to be re-initialised by the Ford diagnostic pc that gets used to read fault codes etc. The F250 as is most vehicles these days are what is called OBD-11 compliant so ecu readers can be made to read a large range of vehicles. OBD stands for On Board Diagnostics. These chips have gold terminals and must be kept surgically clean when swapping chips. The controller I intended to get was a OBD-11 compliant reader with a small led screen as it would read many parameters of the vehicles engine and gearbox. It also had 4 set levels of power increase. No need to open the ecu to place a chip in with this one ...you just open the ecu com port by taking off the plastic cover ( near drivers side left knee on dash in F250's) plug in OBD-11 controller .... hit enter ...select power level ...hit enter ... wait for re-flash of ecu ... factory ecu defaults are now stored in controller. Un-plug controller replace cap ..all done !! To re-set factory settings you just plug in controller dial up factory settings ...hit enter ... controller re-flashes ecu with standard settings. Easy as that !!! The advantage of using these is that the controller being a OBD-11 reader you can read engine fault codes if/as they appear. You can flick through heaps of parameters (little interest to you but heaps for me) like ... engine idle ... coolant temp ... battery volts ... etc etc. Where it comes into its own is .... say I see check eng light come on F250 dash .... I plug in controller ...switch to diagnostic screen ... select read and press enter .... it then says diagnostic trouble code (DTC) P1876 is activated ... this code is Transmission TransferCase 2 wheel drive solenoid failure. Voila ! I now know what is stuffed !!! [smile] If I was chipping an F250 I'd go for one of these because of the extra features of the reader and no breaking of the factory seal on the ecu case. Cost is about $400 US dollars ...probably around $900 AUD landed with duty, gst and freight. Regards Anthony Explore this Great Land ...Do it Easy ...Tow a Bushtracker