Deleted Post

Submitted: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 at 03:55
ThreadID: 121962 Views:4005 Replies:9 FollowUps:4
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I have recently deleted a posting which the Committee deemed to be inconsistent with Terms of Use of the Forum.

Whilst the posting contained some alternative views on a particular technical topic, the manner in which the thread declined into personal commentary by ALL parties was not constructive and not informative

I would urge all users of the Forum to have a look at the Charter and the Terms of Use so that the 400+ registered users may continue to derive benefit without becoming embroiled in personal debates which might best be handled off-forum
Motley

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Reply By: Luvntravln - Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 20:17

Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 20:17
Peter, perhaps there should be a deleted post section of the private forum whree you move posts both from the public and private forums. Then, adult members can choose to read or not read. No ability to add to the post, just an ability to read the post.

Frankly, I am totally against censorship and as a traveler I am only on the forum once a week or less. I would have like to have read the post. Jay
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Follow Up By: Bushtracker - Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 20:29

Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 20:29
Useless negativity and misinformation does not need to be spread.
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Reply By: Hourglass belly up - Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 22:04

Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 22:04
Steve,

I think your perception in regard to the purpose of the Forum to be somewhat in question and I really would like that you try and see it from the point of view of others.

I have no desire to keep hammering this point as I have had my say and so have you on this issue but this is a members Forum not a platform for a one man band. Your comment and postings are undoubtedly helpful and very valuable for some members but others must be given space and the freedom to express their point of view even if you totally disagree with it. The so called newbie’s are not stupid, I have every confidence they will reach the right conclusions for themselves if given the opportunity to have all the information to do so. After all, when you seek medical advice or for that matter the advice from any professional, surely it is in one’s interest to question that advice rather than simply follow it blindly – we have a host of members that can offer professional advice on every aspect relevant to the design, ownership and operation of their vans.

The human experience tells us that whether it be in the political arena, business or elsewhere the best result is always achieved when folk are given the opportunity to express their point of view, it is even more relevant in the case of the Forum as the Forum belongs to the members, and everyone should remember that. When someone is critisised and castigated for an idea or opinion that they have expressed you can bet your boots they are not going to come back for a second lashing and share other ideas they may have and what’s more others are not going to do so either for the same reason. People like to share their thoughts with others besides I think BT owners are very proud of their vans and that’s why we have a common interest in the Forum. If folk are continually treated as if they are stupid that’s the end of any discussion and the membership as a whole looses out as they don’t then get to hear about the multitude of clever ideas, product faults or fixes and a heap of other stuff. Some of the ideas that might be expressed will undoubtedly be crazy, some might be down right stupid, so what ? members can take what they wish from it all. Look at the average length of the threads now, at best one or two comments only.

I personally would like the opportunity to read what others have to say – even deleted posts as I would like to make up my own mind whether the administrators by deleting the posting/postings have done so in a fair and unbiased manner. I have no doubt the present administrators have acted with the utmost integrity to date but this may not be the case with alternate administrators in the future. I concur entirely with Jay’s suggestion and think it is something that ought to be given serious consideration.

I hope my comment will not give rise to another round of irrelevant side issues but in summary I feel strongly that we cannot tolerate aggressive bully boy tactics and the vitriolic personal attack on others that we have seen from time to time both in the old and the new Forum.

Regards
AnswerID: 566312

Reply By: Cobradave - Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 23:42

Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 23:42
Absolutely agree with Jay's comments.I feel the management should take a second look at their censorship rules and let the members decide what is going on here with regard to the unhelpful and personal attacks by a certain member against others.
This is a matter of priority for management and should not be delayed until Copeton in Sept.
AnswerID: 566313

Reply By: Bushtracker Buck & Babe - Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 04:56

Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 04:56
Thankyou everyone for your comments. You can rest assured that the Committee is looking at this and other situations with some interest and intensity.

In cases like this it is often a case of damned if we do and damned if we don't. which group speaks the loudest when it comes to issues like this? There are a number of issues in relation to the running of the group that we are currently looking at and some of them cannot and will not be rushed in an attempt to pacify members who are sometimes just as guilty of inflating the problem. We will get back to you.

In the meantime, the committee is always interested in hearing solutions to problems. If you think that as a member you have a solution to a particular issue that will benefit all members, then rather than being part of the problem, please send it through to any of the committee members and it will be tabled for discussion. If you would rather be part of the problem, then posts that directly attack others will continue to be deleted.

Angie
President.
AnswerID: 566314

Reply By: Motherhen & Rooster - Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 08:13

Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 08:13
My phone line has been out of order for a few days so i have missed all the drama. Rather than delete questionable posts, could management transfer them to the private forum if they are on the public section?

I do hate to see derogatory personal remarks in a post and believe it is not the right place, but i also believe in free speech. It is a worthy suggestion about not deleting them, but not being able to add to them. Although someone determined to retaliate would just start a new post.

What about a "cool down period" - such posts be removed and the writer asked to reconsider his/her wording in a day or two before the post is restored.

Just my rambling thoughts. Looking forward to all good things on the BOG forums in the future. Motherhen
Motherhen

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Reply By: Deleted User - Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 18:28

Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 18:28
I'm hardly qualified to participate in this forum. I'm yet to own my first BT, which will almost certainly be a recent model as opposed to a new one. Having said that, I fully agree with Jay and David. I was lucky enough to have observed the postings before they were unfortunately deleted. A forum is not a forum unless full and frank debate and exchange of ideas takes place. A bit of a pity though if it is hijacked by one entity. Also a pity if such debate is confined to the Private Forum.
Cheers
Rod.
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Reply By: Freewheelers - Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 22:22

Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 22:22
motley i think you did the right thing you killed it off which is exactly what need to be done im not for censorship either however this was not a vigorous debate but vilification & has no part anywhere on this forum or anywhere else cheers
AnswerID: 566317

Follow Up By: Noosa Fox - Friday, May 13, 2005 at 02:22

Friday, May 13, 2005 at 02:22
Having had the oportunity to read the posts, I totally agree with Peter Springs actions, and I would have no hestitation in removing such posts that are basically one member who doesn't like another and abusing them in a slanging match on the forum.

This sort of thing does nothing to improve our forum and is outside the quidelines for posts that can be put on the forum.

It was the same on our first MSN site.

Enjoying the friendship of BOG members

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Reply By: BT escape1 - Friday, May 13, 2005 at 02:26

Friday, May 13, 2005 at 02:26
I also read the posts before they were deleted and in my opinion they contained derogatory remarks about contributors to this forum and I agree with Motley's decision to delete them. It was not a case of two people just disagreeing about a BT matter, it seemed to become personal.

We can easily find it in ourselves to disagree without getting personal. To have left the post in place could have resulted in a further continuation of a public spat, and I don't think that this should have any part in our forum.

Regards Phil

AnswerID: 566318

Reply By: Luvntravln - Monday, May 16, 2005 at 23:04

Monday, May 16, 2005 at 23:04
Frankly, I haven't read the posts; however I must agree 100% with John's comments.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion on all subjects pertaining to all aspecfts of Bushtracker caravans; there is not simply one expert.

In John's posting he stated "The so called newbie’s are not stupid".

The implication is that someone - perhaps Mr. Gibbs (frankly, I do not know whom -called someone "stupid" and everything went downhill from there.

No opinion is "stupid"; it may be based upon eroneous information or a lack of information; however, the only :"stupid" person whomever he/she is is the person that called the newbies stupid.

That is the problem with censorship and therefore the management committee is requested to make this a topic of discussion at the AGM at Copeton so that the membership can decide the extent to which there should be censorship on either the public or private forums with each forum being treated separately. Additionally a discussion should occur whether deleted messages from the public forum should be placed under a "deleted" heading on the private forum.

Luvntravln
AnswerID: 566319

Follow Up By: Bushtracker - Monday, May 16, 2005 at 23:51

Monday, May 16, 2005 at 23:51
Nothing like that happened.
I would not do such a thing, calling newbies such? How silly.. And counterproductive... Imagine....! But there was definitely a personal attack underway, and it was against me, because someone else did not read the Post correctly, and was angry that they did not have the entirely correct answer... I do not wish to engage in such petty mud slinging... Frankly do not have the time....

Your speculation now is only spreading Misinformation.

Regards, Bushtracker
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Follow Up By: Hourglass belly up - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 at 04:12

Tuesday, May 17, 2005 at 04:12
Jay’s post has drawn my attention to the possibility that some readers may have read my comment that “newbie’s are not stupid” to have been the content of or related to content of the posts that were deleted.

I did not get to see the posts before they were deleted and my comment “newbie’s are not stupid” was in the context that if all sides of an argument are given an opportunity to be aired, even on complex technical issues, I believe most folk can quickly figure out for themselves what is rational and what is not. I used the example of the advice one receives every day from professionals and experts – if we do not feel the information given to us somehow adds up we either question it or seek a second opinion. But in either case we make the decision or at least I feel we should have the right to do so.

In the interim I have learnt of the content of the offending posts that were deleted and fully agree with the committee the content fell well within the bounds of unacceptability and it was right to have deleted them.

I personally do not like censorship and would go so far as to say I strongly oppose it as it implies someone has the authority to make a decision that I feel I should and can adequately make for myself - it was in this context I used the expression that “newbie’s are not stupid”. Since this matter was raised I have pondered how it might be possible to have a Forum that is free of censorship but it seems to me to be more of an ideal than what is possible for the reasons we have seen on a few occasions both with the previous and present forums.

Anyhow, as Jay has perceived my comments differently to that intended it falls upon me to correct that impression as I had not intended there be any linkage whatsoever between what may have been expressed in the deleted posts and my comments “newbie’s are not stupid” or that Steve or anyone else had stated this. In fact, at the time of my posting not only did I not know of the content but I also did not know the authors.
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