SNAKE BITE KIT

Submitted: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 at 03:33
ThreadID: 121994 Views:4150 Replies:5 FollowUps:8
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The Lone Ranger posted information about a Snake Bite Kit in the Private Forum (Post 1537)
It is a great addition to your Medicine kit that everyone who goes bush should have.
Check it out http://www.sawyeronline.com/sawyer_products/pages/extractor/index.htm
It prompted me to buy a kit. As it was cheaper by the dozen I now have 8 left for sale at cost.
$25.00 plus postage.
Email me if you want one. myerscough@yahoo.com

PS The Lone Ranger may want to repeat this post on the public forum.

Rosco
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Reply By: Deleted User - Tuesday, May 24, 2005 at 07:45

Tuesday, May 24, 2005 at 07:45
Dear Myersco,
I'm uncertain if the website and product you mention is intended to be serious or in jest.....
But for the record the treatment of Australian snakebite (and funnel web spider bite) is pressure / immobilization. The affected body part should be wrapped in a bandage at the tightness of a sprained ankle, the part splinted to prevent movement and the victim transferred to a medical facility where anti-venom can be sourced. Survival can be virtually assurred.
Red back spider bite does not require pressure-immobilzation (as the venom is painful and slow acting) but the victim should be transferred to a medical facility without delay.
Box jellyfish and blue - ringed octopus envenomation requires attempting to cleanse the area with vinegar and the likelihood of being able to rapidly institute cardio- pulmonary resuscitation (chest compressions and mouth to mouth ventilation).
Arterial tourniquets, suction devices, incsions or even driving you Toyota Landcruiser at high speeds off-road have been known to be of NO value in treatment of Australian envenomation for at least the last 20 years.
See for instance http://tinyurl.com/9xj48
Cheers,
Brad.
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Follow Up By:- Tuesday, May 24, 2005 at 08:17

Tuesday, May 24, 2005 at 08:17
Also have a look at
http://www.stjohn.org.au/guide.htm
Under the snake bite tab - there is a nice simple .pdf that you can download, print out and put in your first aid kit about snake bite.
Cheers,
Brad.
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Reply By: The Boondockers - Tuesday, May 24, 2005 at 20:24

Tuesday, May 24, 2005 at 20:24
I fully understand your point.
I ask myself if I was bitten out in the bush and applied a pressure bandage how long do I have to get to a medical facility? I may be two or more hours away. Will the pressure bandage contain the poison long enough? What if I am bitten where I can't apply a pressure bandage like on the neck or body? What if I was broken down or rained in?
I will be travelling with the Snake Bite Pump. It gives me a better chance of survival.

Rosco
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Follow Up By:- Tuesday, May 24, 2005 at 22:39

Tuesday, May 24, 2005 at 22:39
Virtually all snake and spider bites occur on the limbs, legs more often than arms. (The rare reports of bites to the torso tend to be of a relative of the funnel web spider which lives in trees on the northern NSW coast and can drop onto unclothed walkers....yuk !)

Correctly applied pressure / immobilisation may protect for days (but usually victims get to medical care within several hours), but it is the ONLY thing that will work. The vast majority of snake and spider bites do not result in successful envenomation, ie no first aid would in retrospect have been required (or alternatively any measure, no matter how bizarre, may be viewed by the victim as being successful).

Myesco, I may as well tell people that hanging a clove of garlic around my neck will protect from snake bite and then ask you to disprove it. If you have any reputable evidence that your device works than give the reference and people can judge for themselves. Keep in mind that the effects of Australian snake envenomation is very different to North American snakes (which tend to cause gross local injury, tissue death etc. but are not fatal, ie again any first aid measure would have "saved" the victim's life).

My advice would be in the interim to follow the advice of the RFDS, St.John's ambulance, the CSL (who make the anti-venom), the medical profession, etc.etc. And carry a couple of bandages in the first aid box - good for a sprained ankle too !

Cheers,
Brad.
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Reply By: Bushtracker - Tuesday, May 24, 2005 at 23:02

Tuesday, May 24, 2005 at 23:02
Here is the reprint of my article on the Private Forum, did not really want it here so as to avoid the controversy as is above, but anyway.....

”.. Something of a Snakebite Kit…."

Anti venom medications are very unstable, very species oriented, perishable, and not widely available…. Yes, I know, snakebite death is less than shark attack and being hit by lightening, But….80% of Australians live in the city… Out Bush? I am phobic about our collection of the most deadly snakes in the world; and I travel with a family of five and up to five horses.. The damn things even kill horses! For those of you that do not know, da “Lone Ranger” is a bit of a Battle Field Med Tec, and studies beyond the basic “Advance First Aid” credential that I have qualified for… My field of study is more in line with “Trauma and Emergency Medicine” and Leslie my Good Wife is an RN.. Now I am not qualified to give Medical Advice, and you should seek Qualified Medical Advice… And this goes against the standard medical advice of the Royal Flying Doctors and Australian Medical Association (AMA)…. BUT HERE IS WHY, and here is a goodie that could be very important:

The standard AMA advice is “Pressure Bandage” the whole limb, I.D. the snake if possible as the antivenom is more effective species oriented, and immediately transport to a Medical Facility.. I am not going to give a dissertation on the procedure for this pressure bandaging, you can research this technique yourself, and it is a very good thing to know… The idea is that the pressure bandages tightly wrap the whole limb and slows the venoms assimilation into the body, long enough to get to Professional Medical Attention… Fine, it works and I am not arguing the case.. The truth is that a reasonable percentage of snake bites do not inject venom, but you cannot tell, and the pressure bandages all the way up the limb helps to slow the venoms progress and the venom is thought to actually deteriorate a bit on its own over time… It works and there is nothing wrong with the standard AMA advice… BUT: My Research Studies were about what could I do if I was out past the Black Stump, rained in, whatever, and could not get out!! I was a bit worried when I get so far back in the Bush that this might be a long time interval and there had to be something more I could do… Originally I was looking into the purchase of a Polyvalent Anti-venom (multi species) oriented injection, that I could refrigerate and carry with me…. But this proved to be somewhat difficult. So, here is TIP # 33…

A few of you Old Timers been around for a while like the “Lone Ranger”, remember the old way of lancing the bite site and using the old pressure cups that sucked out the poison while applying a tourniquet in a tighten and loosen timing interval.. I have actually carried the old style kit in remote places like in Africa. The AMA has decided that now, this is not the go… It may put the person into Shock, and also can easily spread the venom rather than extracting it… Primarily because most people do not have the training to do anything but aggravate a bad situation.. Fine… I have no problem with that… They know more than my humble self… For sure…!!

But in my Medical Studies on the Internet I ran into something sold by Sawyer Products, as I searched for snake bite treatments, on www.sawyeronline.com that is a cheap bit of possible help. They cost about $12 U.S. on last look (years ago), weigh nearly nothing, about the size of two packs of cigarettes… Called “The Extractor”… It is a valved, spring loaded large syringe, with cup attachments of all sizes to fit almost all body parts and bite sizes… You put on the right cup attachment, and use it per instructions, and as you depress and release the spring loaded plunger once, internal valving pre-loads one heck of a lot of major suction for a long time… It will leave one very large purple welt, and almost suck the blood right through your skin… I was so impressed, I bought 10 of them to put in various places. I remember a few years back reading about a boy struck on a waterslide in the face by a Brown Snake, and unfortunately died. I spread these “Extractor” kits out in my vehicles and van, and the truth is there is one in my briefcase. If one of mine are struck by a snake, we will put on “The Extractor”, AND pressure bandage as well, and transport… I just have no confidence that in some very remote regions of travel, that we could get to an Anti-venom equipped medical facility in time…

Note: I am not Qualified to give Medical Advice, this is not medical advice, seek the counsel of Qualified Medical Personnel… I am only telling you of a device that makes me feel better with my family of five in snake ridden areas, that may be a positive advantage… It is small enough to go in a pocket when tramping around, and light enough not to be noticed…. I am convinced, that if ENOUGH -IMMEDIATE and POWERFUL suction is put in place it could withdraw the venom with blood and serum from the bite to some degree…. And still pressure bandage the whole limb, and transport to a Hospital…
It comes with a razor to shave the site quickly and would be the go even for a horse..

Another possibly entertaining, silly anecdote, from the “Lone Ranger”…..

Crazy….. But never Boring… And still travelling with Quarter Horses….

AnswerID: 566402

Follow Up By:- Tuesday, May 24, 2005 at 23:21

Tuesday, May 24, 2005 at 23:21
Bushtracker,
This post (not yours I understand) wants to have a bet each way.....
But even that I take exception too. The skin area of the suspected snake bite should not be washed, lanced, sucked, pierced or anything other than bandaged and immobilized.
Once at a medical facility a swab of the area has a good chance of identifying the species responsible, so that the appropriate anti-venom can be selected.
Don't even think about self- administering anti-venoms ( that requires ICU facilities).

Funny the things we worry about...... I can't remember the last time I heard about someone being rained in , out the back of nowhere, with no adequate communications and then bitten on the neck or torso by a snake........

Heart disease or cancer will get you first I bet. Worry about those if you enjoy worrying, and make the lifestyle and diet changes necessary to avoid them.

Cheers,
Brad.
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Follow Up By: Bushtracker - Tuesday, May 24, 2005 at 23:55

Tuesday, May 24, 2005 at 23:55
Brad,
This is why I wanted it left on the Private Forum.... And this was not intended for anyone that could get to a medical facility... This was for when someone was way out, possibly days from help... Like some of our gold fossickers and the like... I have personally been in semi-deciduous hardwood forests where the RFD could not land, behind rivers that flooded... Yes, we go waaay out... And I travel with 3 Children. I am not likely to get bitten, but children seem to get into things more... This was possibly an answer, not meant for ongoing argument.. OK you don't want one.... But I even have one in my briefcase...

As to worry? Heart disease? My Medical Studies have prompted me to undergo my own regime of diet change that dropped my total cholesterol from 5.7 down to 3.0 in only 4 months... That did surprise the Doctors that followed it. The AMA may not have all the answers to health, dealing in drug company sponsorship prescription treatments as a priority, rather than dealing with the lifestyle causes of most disease.

My point is that this snakebite kit was just a consideration, for those that were outside of the range of help or practical "immediate transport" to any medical facility.. And possibly a help...
Anyway, not meaning to provoke an unsolvable argument here, but I believe it could be a help, when there was no help to be had. And I thought I would share it. In the right circumstances.... Even you might want me to go get mine out of the truck...

Cheers
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FollowupID: 844584

Follow Up By:- Wednesday, May 25, 2005 at 01:59

Wednesday, May 25, 2005 at 01:59
Jeez, you guys......okay, so you've been bitten by a snake on the neck or torso, you're out the back of nowhere and you're stuck.
Why choose this device ? Why not hang garlic around your neck or try some aromatherapy or roll in some dingo dung if you want ?
Why send $25 plus postage to someone for something which there is not a jot of evidence for ??
Curiously,
Brad.
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FollowupID: 844585

Follow Up By:- Wednesday, May 25, 2005 at 02:39

Wednesday, May 25, 2005 at 02:39
With you 100% Brad. Also, I can't understand why some topics are "better left on the private forum"!
Misinformation should be corrected, where ever it appears.
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FollowupID: 844586

Follow Up By: Bushtracker - Wednesday, May 25, 2005 at 03:03

Wednesday, May 25, 2005 at 03:03
Yea, well, you could be right...
But, then again I have seen it, tried it, and think it works... I was so suitably impressed I wrote an article of interest and shared the idea. Maybe it could make a difference... What is the harm? I believe it and think it works if applied immediately.. You don't have to, that is the beauty of Freedom of Choice.

I have the benefit of ongoing "Continuing Education" of the past five years in medicine, having also live with an RN for 28 years, and we have seen it, and think it works... Not so sure it is productive to be dead set against new ideas, but it is Human Nature to some degree.. And just because you do not believe it, or have even seen it, does not mean it is necessarily misinformation. In the right circumstances I think it could save a life. And while you are entitled to think otherwise and not bother... Possibly it is mean to denegrade something that might save a life, and does no harm if used in the context of what I was talking about... Enough said.

Regards to all, stg
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FollowupID: 844587

Reply By: The Boondockers - Wednesday, May 25, 2005 at 05:54

Wednesday, May 25, 2005 at 05:54
Whatever.
I didnt mean to start a mass-debate
As i said I only bought these for my own use and because it was cheaper by the dozen I bought enough to supply a few of my fellow travellers. I am not making a profit.
As Stg said you make up your own mind.
To me the extractor makes sense.
I still have 6 left.
myerscough@yahoo.com if you want one.

Rosco
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Follow Up By:- Wednesday, May 25, 2005 at 07:23

Wednesday, May 25, 2005 at 07:23
Wow, you caravan guys are sorta scary.......I think I'll retreat back to my campertrailer website..
ciao,
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Reply By: Grafton BT - Saturday, May 28, 2005 at 10:29

Saturday, May 28, 2005 at 10:29
Brad,
Are you in this forum because your campertrailer site gave you the flick? You are a drop kick. It was unneccessary to carry on the way you have and get personal. You are welcome to put your point/idea forward and allow others to make their own investigations and minds up, as others have done. Information is put onto forum's to give people ideas, to do their own investigations, and discuss. Not denegrate and be obstinate to each other. Although some of your arguments are valid, you detroyed your credibility by getting personal and not sticking to the argument. The medical profession gave away leeches for years, and now, guess what - they are back! Thankyou to BushTracker and myersco and others for continuing to put forward their idea's, discoveries and hints, I will read and make up my own mind with appropriate research.

Stuart
AnswerID: 566404

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