To Bernie and Donna: The Fix on the Possible 100 Series IFS weakness

Submitted: Thursday, Jun 30, 2005 at 19:56
ThreadID: 122069 Views:4755 Replies:3 FollowUps:8
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Hello Bernie and Donna, I did not know how to answer you in the thread as your posting on your dilemma was a follow-up, and I was not sure how to get it to you still intact in the thread for context so here goes a new thread... I only have seen pictures of the IFS failing on retention of the a-frame and breakaway of the drive axle... So this is an original Posting as you seem to have a handle on the potential fix from ARB... Your Posting:

Bernie and Donna posted this followup

"I have been following the discussions on the IFS problems with the new Cruiser as I am trying to make a decision on whether to purchase a Toyota or take the plunge and buy the Ford. I have a 16ft Bushtracker and I do travel into the city. I have spoken to ARB and taken photo's of the $350 blot on modification that is being done to strengthen the lower wishbone assembly. (I can not post the photos as they are over the 50k limit).
This problem alone is the reason the decision has not already been made"

End of your Posting and my comments:
Having owned both sizes in the City, I would like to help you with your decision... You have two huge criteria that I would say sways you on the side of the Toyota for sure: City and a smaller Bushtracker... The 100 Series is still our Number One most common Tow Vehicle, and if you can accept that minor issue and if ARB are confident that this is the fix, then you should probably consider it...

PLEASE POST THE RESULTS OF THIS FIX FOR THE IFS, if you have this modification done, as many others would no doubt benefit from this... I am trying not only to help you but others as well... I get to hear about all of these kinds of problems and modifications staying in touch with the 1000 or so, and spend my time to help.. OK?

The only other negative I have heard (not experienced myself as I do not have the IFS, I have taken the alternate route and fixed up a monobeam standard 100 Series with aftermarket turbo and intercooler which I still submit as a good alternative to the IFS) any way the only other bad report I have heard on the IFS, is the steering floating on the corrugation on big sweeping turns on the bauxite gravel up north... It seems that the independent on one in a million bounces, goes in parallel airborne on the corrugation for an instance in what is called "harmonic motion" and breaks the steerage free in the curve with sideways drift... From reports this can be compensated for adequately, by either accelerating or decelerating on the curves, not taking a set fixed speed on the sweeping curve of the greasy bauxite blue gravel corrugation... OK?

I have heard of it happening enough to take the vehicle clear off the road from about three different Owners. No significant damage, just a fright... And this is a rare occurrence, not an issue to make you not buy the IFS, just something I felt I should share with everyone... I am the hub for information from a lot of sources all over, and I would feel bad if I did not share this, if someone got hurt, even though it appears to be a significantly rare condition... Only three out of hundreds is not much, statistically... Certainly should not affect the choice of vehicle... So I still say the combination of City and smaller van, goes way in favour of the 100 Series for you...

I am a Fan of the larger vehicle, that I just loved to drive, even in the City... But it is hard to justify the Ford for a smaller van and parking hassles, so I would coach that the 100 Series is still the best in your situation... If it were not for the city part, the answer might be different for all the reason stated in the previous thread Tip # 50. But the Sum Total is, the new IFS 100 Series Turbo is still the King!

Kind Regards from da "Lone Ranger" up on the ridges tryin to look after ya!

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Reply By: Freewheelers - Thursday, Jun 30, 2005 at 23:18

Thursday, Jun 30, 2005 at 23:18
hi all the $350 mod is $57 for parts & the rest is transport & labour i had it done as part of my suspension upgrade they put it in for parts cost only as the $ werin thev rest of the job cheers
AnswerID: 566620

Follow Up By: Bushtracker - Thursday, Jun 30, 2005 at 23:23

Thursday, Jun 30, 2005 at 23:23
Are you able to describe it for all of the BOG Family that own the IFS?
My meager understanding of it from the pictures was it was some kind of retainer as all there was to hold up the a-frame was the shock mount.
Can you tell us what it looks like and what the ARB Mod is please...

Ranger knee deep in the BOG... Ha!
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FollowupID: 844707

Follow Up By: Bernie and Donna - Friday, Jul 01, 2005 at 04:04

Friday, Jul 01, 2005 at 04:04
This is how it was described to me - The weld does not run all the way to the end of the junction where the pieces of metal join and a crack develops. The modification is an "L" shaped bracket that bolts on between the Torsion bar and the wishbone assembly, then two holes are drilled in the wishbone and bolts are fitted. (Photo's Posted). The purpose is to support the original weld. I asked if this was approved by Toyota, the answer was YES, I then asked if this was a permanent fix the answer was NO IT REQUIRES CHECKING EVERY FEW MONTHS FOR CRACKS DEPENDING ON THE TERAIN YOU ARE TRAVELING. From this conversation I was not comfortable with the end result.
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FollowupID: 844708

Follow Up By: Freewheelers - Friday, Jul 01, 2005 at 23:21

Friday, Jul 01, 2005 at 23:21
I WILL CRAWL UNDER THE 100 SREIES ON THE WEEKEND ( GOD WILLIN & THE CREEKS DON'T RISE) & HAS A GOOD LOOK
IT IS AS BERNIE SAYS REINFORCEMENT FROM MEMORY 5 - 6 MM THICK AT THE SYDNEY CARAVAN SHOW I SPOKE TO SEVERAL PEOPLE FROM 4 W D SHOPS ABOUT SUSPENSION & THEY ALL ACNOWLEDGE IT WAS A GOOD IDEA TO ADD IT MOST PEOPLE USE THE ARB VERSION BUT EVEN PEDDERS HAVE THEIR OWN VERSION PRETTY MUCH THE SAME PRICE
I VISITED MY COUSIN IN SINGLETON LAST WEEK HE IS A MOTOR MECHANIC seLF EMPLOYED BUT DOES CONTRACT WORK FOR THE COAL MINES THE MINES USE A LOT OF 100 SERIES IFS & DRIVE THEM HARD THE WEAKEST LINK THEY HAVE FOUND IS NOT THE SUSPENSION BUT THE GEAR BOXES TO THE POINT WHERE THEY ARE ADAPTING 80 SERIES BOXES BACK INTO THEM INTERESTING !!! BUT THEY DO THRASH THEIR VECHICLES DAY & NIGHT CHEERS
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FollowupID: 844709

Follow Up By: Bernie and Donna - Thursday, Jul 07, 2005 at 04:13

Thursday, Jul 07, 2005 at 04:13
I have copied this comment from another site for your information, not sure on the facts myself

The ARB strengthening kit is illegal. To fit the kit the lower wishbones have to be drilled out for mounting bolts, this contravines the ADR's for the suspension, as any drilling or welding of suspension components needs a engineers certificate, and a certificate would normally only be given if the components are Xrayed.
ARB doesn't claim that their kit fixes the problem but may help to stop it happening.

I think the only reason why Toyota doesn't have a recall is that they don't have a quick fix as it a design fault, the shockers take the weight at full extension instead of a bump stop.

Toyota made the mistake of using NZ as their test market for full IFS and not here, so it will cost them big if there is a fatality, alla Ford Exploders.
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FollowupID: 844710

Reply By: Bushtracker - Friday, Jul 01, 2005 at 18:19

Friday, Jul 01, 2005 at 18:19
Dear Bernie and Donna,

Please take this to heart, as I am going to try and pull you back from what might be a bit to extreme in your feelings about this... I am no way trying to tell you what to do or what is right for you.. I am really just coaching you here, a little maybe call it Scientific Realism, to pull you back to neutral ground where you can make the right decision for yourself.. OK? Here Goes:

I really do not think it is a problem UNLESS you are planning on extreme 4x4 rock climbing lifting a front wheel clear off the ground all the time with diff-locks engaged? Or Rally Running going airborne at high speed over cattle grates like a Rally Car?

In all scientific fairness to the 100 Series IFS, we have not heard of this failure in any of our Clients IFS Cruisers.. In all fairness, you could maybe approach the idea of the upgrade as just part of the package, but UNLESS you are a major 4x4 Gymkhana Participant in Rock Hopping, or ploughing new ground gold fossicking overland in the Pilbara, or going in the Rally Car races across the Outback, I do not think it is enough of a concern to put someone off buying one, OK?

It is still our Number One most common tow vehicle, and a very good one for your circumstances... Now of course if you have any of the ambitions listed above, then YES it is a valid concern... But in that case anyway, I would not buy the IFS at all for the above concerns, but instead by the Standard GXL with the tried and true Monobeam front diff and no engine electronics... And then add the aftermarket turbo and intercooler for about the same power output... Front and rear diff-locks like mine, upgrades suspension, and then YES you would have a Real Tractor Rock Hopper capable of going places that would scare most... With Mud Terrains like mine it is almost un-stoppable!!! But, if you just want the best tow vehicle I am not sure I would let this concern bother me like you indicate... OK?

"Back to the middle ground" from the "Lone Ranger" at BT
AnswerID: 566621

Follow Up By:- Friday, Jul 01, 2005 at 22:34

Friday, Jul 01, 2005 at 22:34
Hi Bernie and Donna

last year whilst on the Tanami Track a 100 Series IFS passed me and when we got into the road hose i noticed that his brand new ARB bull bar was on the roof rack, asked him what had happened and he said that it fell off in the first 150k of rough stuff " his words not mine" he showed me where it had come apart at the front, now The Lone Ranger will hop of his perch and tell you that i a dreaming again, well give the boy's at ARB a call and get the right info.
I have never read so much HOG WASH from the lone ranger in all my life what sort of ex[ert is he
running across the paddock
10 Para
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FollowupID: 844711

Follow Up By: Bernie and Donna - Saturday, Jul 02, 2005 at 15:27

Saturday, Jul 02, 2005 at 15:27
Thank you both for your input and opinions. I have gathered enough information (including cost) to now make a more educated decision on what to do.

Many thanks
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FollowupID: 844712

Reply By: Deleted User - Friday, Aug 19, 2005 at 23:10

Friday, Aug 19, 2005 at 23:10
Hi All..
Everybody goes on about the Toyota and effy 250.
For the smaller B.T. I'd be seriously looking at the 3ltr Patrol
The front end doesn't drop off. .Good fuel economy. and now the earlier teething prob's are fixed. They're a great truck. and more reliable .Mechanically. than the Toyo's...
We tow a 6.5mtr Roadstar. Safari pack..weighs in at about 2.7/2.8 ton. We average... 6.5 km per ltr .towing at cruising speeds on bitumin.
Probably the near perfect tow veh, for the smaller B.T's..
I know a few people who have changed from Toyo. To Patrol Just because of this model...
With the D'Tronic chip. I out-tow a 4.2td Toyo. towing the same van. All the time.
Specially on the hills.and at the fuel Pumps.
Just a thought...
Regards All
Macka..
AnswerID: 566622

Follow Up By: Bushtracker - Friday, Aug 19, 2005 at 23:28

Friday, Aug 19, 2005 at 23:28
OK Macka,
This is an alternative for the Nissan Fans.... Except before any of you run out and buy one, be careful, the automatic has some problems... We have many Bushtracker Owners happy with the stick, we have 0 Bushtracker Owners happy with the Auto... It is downgraded to 2500 kg, and the comment from two Owners is: "could'n pull the skin off a rice puddin'.." So I would say while we have many happy Owners running the 3 litre up to 18' Bushtrackers in size, the happy quotient as reported by Bushtracker Owners with the automatic is Zero...! I think there is maybe one Owner of a second hand Bushtracker, that is happy with the automatic, but that is all I can remember... OK?

Kind Regards from da Ranger, up on da ridges, tryin' ta look afta ya!!
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FollowupID: 844713

Follow Up By:- Saturday, Aug 20, 2005 at 00:12

Saturday, Aug 20, 2005 at 00:12
Sorry B.T, I automatically thought Manual.. I wouldn't tow anything HEAVY with an Auto.. Asking for trouble without a lockout...
Regards
MAcka
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FollowupID: 844714

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