Twinl fuel system Diesel/gas

Submitted: Tuesday, Jan 17, 2006 at 00:49
ThreadID: 122422 Views:2578 Replies:6 FollowUps:1
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There are a few articles around on the use of running diesel engines using a twin fuel system. Fuel being both Diesel and LPG together. there is a web site WWW.dieselgasaustralia.com.au which has some information. I have made some calls and spoken to one of there people. It looks intresting albiet it a bit on the pricy side ($3500 to $4000) however when you consider adding a tank which also extends the range and the claimed fuel efficency it looks pretty good. Question. Has anyone had any first hand experience or comments that would help make an informed decision in this area it would be appreciated.

Thanks

George
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Reply By: Bushtracker - Tuesday, Jan 17, 2006 at 02:48

Tuesday, Jan 17, 2006 at 02:48
Hello George,
I have heard of it for some time now and seen a truck done up in it a few years ago, but the engineering reservation was engine wear. Diesel is a lubricant to the top end. I do not know how to verify it, but I have heard that reduced lubrication to the top end would result in premature wear and it makes sense with the very high compression of diesels.... I would want to know for sure that was not true, and I do not know how you verify that. However, I have seen a truck running it, and it was interesting. Mind you, this was a few years ago, and the fact that it has not caught on in the trucking industry would send up a red flag of caution to me at least.

The idea was increased fuel economy, but not if it meant increased engine wear to eat the difference. It is a good question to put to the source: "Why has this not caught on in the Transport Industry when it has been out for years?" "Increased engine wear?" And see what their answer is...

Also better figure out how many kilometres it takes to break even...
Regards, from the Ranger...
AnswerID: 567774

Reply By: Bushtracker - Tuesday, Jan 17, 2006 at 22:34

Tuesday, Jan 17, 2006 at 22:34
By the way, I would love to have the LPG system in my Dual Cab Mack Horsetruck...
I cannot remember, but years ago the engine concerns were something in the valve train, like valve guides or something, I can't remember.. And the other concern was something in the rings from memory, oil rings or compression rings, but again it has been years and I cannot remember. Anyway, the only one I saw running was on about a ten tonne truck.

My concern remains, if it is OK and does no harm, why do we not see more of it running on major Interstate Transport Trucking?? I am hoping someone out there knows...

Regards from the Ranger, walking my horse trying to pick up a cold trail.....
AnswerID: 567775

Reply By: Wandering Wombats - Tuesday, Jan 17, 2006 at 23:16

Tuesday, Jan 17, 2006 at 23:16
Hi Steve
Thanks for reply, When talking to the diesel gas people it was mentioned that the original concept was for larger units and has only just been scaled down for vehicles. I guess when the price of diesel goes higher it can help make a product viable that otherwise would not be.

The other intresting claim is the additional power, what value do you put on that in the equasion, many people would put a high weighting on that (especially when towing). And extending the overall range that can be obtained from those changes.
Alternatly there are a number of electronic chips around which can help but not sure if you can achieve the same results as the LPG addition.

Having said I have been promised a list of names of people who have had the mofdification done so I can get more information and quantify the results
.
Regards George
AnswerID: 567776

Follow Up By: Bushtracker - Tuesday, Jan 17, 2006 at 23:56

Tuesday, Jan 17, 2006 at 23:56
Thank you George,
You are hereby Nominated for the Bushtracker Research and Development Team. Congratulations! Ha!

Anyways, I have plenty of room under the Mack, and the LPG would be a fuel economy improvement... More Power means better fuel economy, and all trucks are towing, just a big load... Lets just see if someone can tell us why it is not more widely used??? ANYTHING that worked would be seized on by the Transport Industry.. There has to be a reason it is not more common...
It has been a few years since I last looked into it, but possibly there is some engine wear disadvantage we are not told of..??From memory, you started it on diesel, and added in the LPG on the highway to throttle back diesel use. If it does indeed work, the proof would be all over the highway, so I remain cautious but interested in a final answer... We will just have to wait until someone stumbles on it here... Regards from the Ranger....
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FollowupID: 845333

Reply By: Bushtracker - Wednesday, Jan 18, 2006 at 01:15

Wednesday, Jan 18, 2006 at 01:15
Well,
Here is as far as I could Research on the Net: A UK firm confirms about a 20-25% overall fuel savings, see them at www.futurefueltechnologies.co.uk . And then there is an Australian Firm, saying about the same figures it seems, about a 25% fuel savings, but for a truck they are talking $10,395 inc GST. George, see them at www.atlasgas.com .

Now my rough calculations are that it is a break even on my truck in 100,000 kms. But there is still a piece missing or my orginal reservations holds: Even a payback of 25% fuel economy after the first 100,000 kms is HUGE, and it does not answer why EVERYONE in the trucking game is not in it??? I don't get it... Unless there is some other downside like engine wear or something... I have heard of trucks doing 400,000 a year, after the first 100,000 that leaves 300,000 kms of a 25% savings? An average big truck doing 3 km per litre means 100,000 litres for that 300,000 km, and 25% means 25,000 litres in a big year, around $35,000 savings? So it still comes back to my original question, what do we not know or why is not the entire Interstate Trucking Industry running on it.. Ha!

Yea, yea, probably sniffing down a dead in trail, but that is what the Ranger does... But it is interesting and once in a while you find a real Gem!
AnswerID: 567777

Reply By: TroopyTracker - Wednesday, Jan 18, 2006 at 02:52

Wednesday, Jan 18, 2006 at 02:52
A mate had his TD Ford Courier done by a company in Caloundra and is exremely happy with not just the economy but the much improved power. The latest 4wd Monthly has an article on doing this exact thing to a 1hz Troopy. Postive reports there but I believe little to nothing printed in these mags. The guy's spent about $10k to get some more power and economy with this gas thing, new turbo. Should have just bought the factory TD for about $4k more than the 1hz!
Matt
AnswerID: 567778

Reply By: Wandering Wombats - Wednesday, Jan 18, 2006 at 03:20

Wednesday, Jan 18, 2006 at 03:20
I agree with the comments and concerns.
If it sounds to good to be true it normally is. The guy I spoke to did the trials with the 4WD magazine Tech guy. Also with a F250, there were a total of 4 vehicles tested including a Patrol and land rover (I think Defender). Apparently all vehicles showed good results, The theory of improving combustion has some merit, I think we all appreciate that diesel does not combust fully so if you can tackle the root cause of an issue and succeed maybe!!. They have over come some of the older issues with the advancement with smarter software.. The efficiency issue could be written into a contract if needed but the issue of damage to the engine over time is where the question mark is.
regards George
AnswerID: 567779

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