Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 15, 2006 at 19:53
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Performance increase, is more horsepower and torque, and if you learn to drive it conservatively it can translate into better fuel economy... With the current cost of fuel, tow vehicle engine performance upgrades passed by before due to cost, are now much more affordable !! Headers, increased exhaust, supercharging, turbos, intercoolers, chip up, increased air intake, can all pay off now twice as good or in half the time..

For instance: I think it prudent to examine all of the Chip up conditions for the common Diesels of Fords and Landcruiser, with a mind that higher performance on the low setting, can mean better fuel economy.. I know this is true, if you drive with a light foot, not utilizing all of the performance increase; then more HP can mean better fuel economy on some vehicles… Also the mechanical things you can do to the engine like free flowing air intake and exhaust systems.

The same goes for LPG intake manifold injection into diesels, if the conversion cost is reasonable and the Government was going to subsidize the costs per the Post on the Public Forum for diesel applications, then we should re-examine the option. Prior diesel costs at nearly half what it is today, when penciled out did not have an attractive pay back period. The Converse is true now…

THE FOLLOWING IS JUST AN OPINION, AND NOT NECESSARILY SCIENCE, JUST AN OPINION ON EPA EMISSIONS CONTROL REMOVAL IN THE COUNTRY SETTING: The Greenie Flaw is the condemnation of performance enhancing or removal of EPA Emissions DE-TUNING, is that it is only justifiable in the Cities where smog and general air quality is the primary issue… Removal of the emission controls or programming, IF YOU KEEP YOUR FOOT OUT OF IT, can mean better fuel economy. This part is fact, science, not just an opinion.. Removal of the emissions controls or programming does in fact lead to better engine performance, and if you drive conservatively could mean as much as 10-15% LESS fuel used. The reason it does not work in places of mandatory emission controls like California, is the Urban environment and Gear Heads that would SPEND the performance increase with a heavy foot….

You add tuning, possibly LPG injection into the equation on one end, and then look at mechanical conditions on the engine itself for better breathing and exhaust, and you could end up with MAJOR increases in fuel economy… For instance the better breathing ability of the Ford AIS / Donaldson larger air intake. Not only will it allow less restriction to the engine with better air flow, but it will last far longer being packed up with bull dust before it gets restriction with a much larger filter surface area. This could add a few percent…. Then not only breathing better on the intake, but a larger exhaust can add up maybe another 3% - 5% (depending on the vehicle) with doing away with backpressure in the exhaust system with a free-flow hot rod muffler and larger bore exhaust can only help.

It goes on, as in things like an Intercooler??? ( Cooled ex-Turbo Air sort of an air –radiator in the front), if you do not have one, it can add 5% on its own… In the “Old Days” we might have not opted for it as Intercooler, Turbo, and Exhaust job could be $5000 !! But Whoa there! Now with fuel at double the cost, it is time to re-visit some of the costs on these things… And an Intercooler reduces heat stress and wear to the engine..

PETROL HEADS EVEN: Here is another one, Supercharger…. Now don’t scoff, I have seen a couple of them with 25% or better fuel economy, even a couple of them on diesels!! They are a belt drive massive air volume compressor air feed. It is BETTER than Turbos in some respects as the air is already cooled… Now think about it, possibly the only reason they have not been made a fad like the turbo is that it is more expensive. The Supercharger being belt drive does take horsepower, but so does the effort with a turbo with increased back pressure on the exhaust to some degree. And with the Supercharger just like the Turbo, the horsepower increase is engineered to compensate for that HP it takes to drive it.. Supercharging is arguably better, with less heat load transferred to the engine. In either case, with fuel costs doubled, I think these kind of options are worth revisiting… It goes on, with the availability of injectors and headers and such for some types of vehicles… Headers, are a typical hot rod thing, it that the free flow out of the exhaust into a smooth bore exhaust manifold again means less back pressure again..

Think of it this way, when you calculate the “Pay back time” of these performance enhancing items, which it the time it takes for the performance gear to pay for itself in fuel economy.... The cost just got cut in half by virtue of the diesel price increase by double!! I am not telling you which if any of these things you should do, only opening the door here, so you can do your own investigations on it… OK?

Bigger exhaust, better air intake, chip up, diesel performance enhancing on the fuel and air, all of these things that maybe you passed by in the past may be worth re-evaluating now.. AND THEY DO WORK, with the caveat of course that you keep your foot out of it…! Talk to the people in the know, performance diesel people, the likes of which that do turbo jobs and such... That is a start.

Best Regards from the lone Ranger….

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Reply By: Silver and Tinks - Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 01:30

Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 01:30
Hey Ranger

who does the gas injection for the F250?

I would also like to agree with your disscussion on performance mods but when those XR8's and SS come up beside you it's hard not say giddy up.

In relation to supercharging ,my 4.5 petrol 100 series has been fitted with a TRD supercharger system(eaton blower) and has always been 20% better on fuel when towing a large caravan than a standard 4.5 100 series with the bonus that you can just come on slower vehicles and pass with NO FEAR

However having now towed the BT with both trucks I'd rather always be in the F250


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Follow Up By: Bushtracker - Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 17:20

Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 17:20
Hello Silver and Tinks,
I do not know of anyone that has taken the step of gas injecting the F-250 in Australia. I am on four Ford Forums doing research, and have some favorable reports from America... But do not know if it worth the dollars here as with all Pioneering there are risks... I am considering doing it myself, extended range, fuel economy, and what> More torque yet? Gotta pull two Bushtrackers to use that... Ha!

Performance? I can't help myself sometimes and have to put them in their place when they try and pass my poor lil' farm twuck on the left side or something... If I romp on mine at a light alongside a Hoon, it will get scratch on take off and even chirp in second gear with the auto... I guess that makes me a bit of "giddy up Hoon" myself, but it sure is fun as they always under estimate my Ford... Ha! Gives me a little grin on the way to and fro from work and such... Can't help myself.. I am having a second childhood. Too poor to even afford a saddle when I was a kid........ But if you are going to play better study up on the tranny mods of synthentic oil and /or extra cooler and/or transmission temp gauge... More is more fun, but you are flying in the Danger Zone when towing...

Thank you for the 20% figure on the Supercharger, that fits the reports I have gotten from others... My point is that those stuck with a petrol vehicle for instance, that $5000 or so cost for the Supercharger system is now cut in half with exxy price of diesel. Am I on track on the cost for the TRG Supercharger system? Or is it closer to the $6000 mark now?

And yes the extended wheelbase leverage on the van with the Effie is superior, for Driver fatigue and safety, and I would always do the same...

Thank you for the great input, even my fun little saying I say to people myself now and then: "Keep the Shiney Side up" sound advice from you for all...

Regards, Ranger...
S and T, a nice fun report like yours, makes life a little sunnier!
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Reply By: Black Cobra - Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 05:41

Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 05:41
Totally agree, will be getting a 4" stainless exhaust system put on the F250 and have spken to F Ttrucks here in WA but they said that Banks from america don't make the stainless system anymore but I think he might be bulls%&@ing.

I heard that you have to adapt the down pipe for the right hand drive and he manufacturers these himself so has anyone out there fitted a 4" system and what make and did you have to change the down pipe.

My exhaust guy here that did a great stainless system for my SS Ute when I had it said he can do the 4" stainless job complete for $1300 which is pretty good value and I know the work he does is first class. The only thing is he cuts the pipe of just under the turbo and creates the 4" system from there, once again any info from fello boggers would be appreciated.

F Trucks also have a great digital read out gauge which is just a small black box thats gives out EGT, Trans Temp, Boost all at the same time and is very small at $1100 fitted, has anyone fitted any gauges the give these readings and what type.

My exhaust guy also has a different computer setup that can program 3 or 4 different programs while still retaining the original factory program by programming them in on the Dyno and you can change them at your leasure.

It is a company that does it for Ford and they have released it for the F250. It is not a chip but actually does the programming and is used by Ford dealers for all the performance cars. I cannot remember the name as I had heaps of things on my mind at the time but will checks on it further. The cost was $1690 not much more than the chips.

Any info appreciated

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Follow Up By: Bushtracker - Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 17:06

Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 17:06
Hello Stewart...

Look, you are spending big money there... Not sure it is necessary to go to that degree unless you are just having fun. If you are not just doing it for fun, then you have to question the payback of these things when you are going top shelf in things like stainless exhaust... You can get MOST of the benefit, by just getting a four inch exhaust and free flow muffler, without increasing the downpipe unless you going for big time Tractor Pull and a Beefed up Transmission that will take it... This degree can hardly be justified in $, for just a towing machine. You might be going over the edge a bit, UNLESS you just have money to burn and are doing it for FUN!!!

For instance, the gauges, you have no need at all for a Boost gauge unless you are changing Turbos and hot rodding the engine, or changing the Waste Gate pop off pressures or other Top Performance drag strip stuff for smoking all four tyres... Or a tractor pull type of thing... The stock Turbo is not large enough to get too much boost if you do not mess with the waste gate. If you are not hot rodding, the same goes for an EGT. Not likely to need it... Now the Transmission Temp gauge is a necessity, unless you opt for synthetic oil or an additional cooler, then it even is questionable to justify. Get the Trans Temp gauge if you are not doing any of the above, and only pull it to the top temperature running in soft stuff... But that is only a $150 excercise or so to do..

As to the programming by Ford???? YEA! DO THE RESEARCH. I doubt it will go hand in hand with the Warranty, even if it is available. The problem is that this engine can be nearly doubled in output as it is so big and so strong, that is why it is number one as a workhorse.. But you soon run out of Transmission reserves if you are running a stock tranny, and that is why I doubt you can get Ford to run things up higher for you, for Warranty reasons, particularly the transmission....

The Superchips Microtuner, is only about a $500 option, that gives you the OBII Diagnostics and Code Reader as well as about the only Level of tuning that you can do and still tow safely without overpowering the transmission. Level II and III will kill it, towing... That is the most economical as I think Level I will improve mileage and performance if you keep your foot out of it...

In a nutshell, Black Cobra, Whooooaaa there Big Fella... Iraq and a pocket full of money might have you raging and chaffing at the bit a little... The Ford is ALREADY AWESOME, you might be overdoing it a little... UNLESS OF COURSE YOU ARE JUST HAVING FUN, IN WHICH CASE POWER ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regards, Ranger

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Reply By: Black Cobra - Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 03:49

Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 03:49
Thanks Ranger for the info and will take it on board and will investigate the options given further upon my return. Thats what I dig about this site lots of info to make the decisions.

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Follow Up By: Bushtracker - Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 17:31

Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 17:31
Stewart, you be careful over there, don't let familiarity lower your guard...

I am still playing with all the Ford options myself, we can compare notes, as I am an Enthusiast with my "lil farm ute".....

On the Fords, the best value for money in towing, since the Government is subsidizing the LPG business, might be intake manifold metered flow LPG injection... Without serious engine mods... I am putting out feelers on the American Forums for anyone that has done it but it is hard as they are not LPG rich like us...

Of course if you just want to Hot Rod, sky is the limit for the fun you can have with that big of an engine in the Fords... But for towing I think you would eventually be up for about a $3000 kit for the tranny, as the engine is so large you can double the HP and torque up to around the 500 HP range.. Sounds like fun, but a bit silly and hard to justify unless there were Tractor Pull competitions around. Then you have to go dual stacks as big black smoke out the back is not socially acceptable, where up out the stacks would just look good on big run ups... Again, fun, second childhood fun, but probably not worth the effort..

You can buy the bigger down pipe pretty cheap, I am told, but as I said don't know if it is worth the effort unless you are into big engine mods... The 4" exhaust if you go free flow muffler straight through is cheap. But stainless? Not unless you were on the beach long term would that pay... Ford AIS Donaldson big intake would be in the cards. At least a tranny temp gauge and probably an EGT if you go with any engine mods like propane... There is also a water/metho injection I keep hearing about.. But I think that is the LPG alternative in America as they make corn/ grain alcohol additive to petrol... Anything real serious and I would plan on a $3K kit for the tranny and maybe $3K for the rebuild.... But there are no other choices, as Ford may never be here again, and I doubt Dodge. Time will tell, but might as well play for fun with no other options in the immediate future.

Will keep looking and keep you informed. Might as well play with the toys, he who has the most and best toys wins they say... I reckon it is all Horse Power, 4x4 or 4 legged.

Regards, Ranger....
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Follow Up By: Turist - Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 17:54

Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 17:54
I reckon it is all about horsepower as well.

F250 7.3........234 HP

Dodge Ram.......325 HP

Chev Duromax....360 HP

Won't bother quoting the torque figures, the Frod owners get embarrassed'
The only torque they have is talk.


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Nobody is getting any younger.

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Follow Up By: Bushtracker - Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 17:59

Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 17:59
Awwwwww Turist.....
What do you wanna be when you grow up, a Chebby Dealer??????

You keep pumping your Chebby all the time, you might get a litter of Holdens... Ha!

Hardy harr har, from the Ranger, proudly driving a FORD!!!!

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Reply By: Turist - Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 18:39

Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 18:39
Once apon a time I thought that clocks were all I could wind up.


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Follow Up By: Bushtracker - Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 19:07

Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 19:07
Hey Bob,
I reckon we increase the Readership of the Forum, for the entertainment... A little comedy factor, as I get comments from some about the kick they are getting out of the Ford Chevy routine.. Ha! Others think we have serious dig, they don't realize you just have a complex... Ha! Ha!

Hey you Boggers and Wanna Be's, Bob and I are drinking Buddies, this is all in fun...!!

And Bob claims it is not a skirt he wears driving the Chebby, it is a Tartan Kilt...
Yea right !!
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Reply By: Black Cobra - Saturday, Aug 19, 2006 at 04:08

Saturday, Aug 19, 2006 at 04:08
Right on the mark Ranger,

Yep still checking into things about the F Truck, up at the exhaust guy the other day and there was a FTruck in there that this guy has increased the power by to much. He had a dual big bore exhaust system on it and had increased the horsepower by keeping on doubling the power on top eg increased it by 60Hp then 60 again and again until te motor could not take it and cooked it.

It was in pieces everywhere, anyway got to look and the inside the guts of the 7.3 litre, something I would never normally see.

I have been doing fuel checks and getting used to the F Truck consumption which has returned 18 lt/100 km city, 15.81 lt/100 km city/highway, 13.64 lt/100 km highway @ 100km/h.

I will also check into the bigger exhaust in more detail and get more info as to the down pipe etc. I was always told that if you have whatever size system you need to have the same size all the way through, for instance if you had a 3" system and cut it off say 6" below the manifold and joined a 4" system to it you defeat the purpose as the gas still has to go through the 3" section first before it gets to the 4" section.

It therefore still has that back pressure of the 3" first so it is not has good as all 4". Thats why I will look at the down pipe and see how it is altered by F Trucks WA compared to just cutting the pipe of just below the turbo. Was climbing under the truck today having a sticky beak.

As to stainless steel the problem is that F Trucks will fit a 4" system for $1900, with new down pipe, mandrel bent fitted in mild steel where my exhaust guy will cut the pipe of just under the turbo and fit a 4 " stainless system, mandrel bent for $1300. Hmmmmm which way to go, might buy the downpipe of F trucks and get the stanless system attached to that, will keep on checking on the pros and cons if at all.

I have the AIS filter system sent over from the powerstroke shop and that will be installed in the next 3-4 weeks and then I will do another fuel consuption with that system before I do the exhaust if needed. Obviously when the B/T is ready in March the fuel figures will be different when towing and drop but the ration will be the same. The only consideration will be the extra accessories fitted like 270 lt fuel tank over the standard 113 ltr tank and bar/wich etc. as this will add extra weight.

Anyway all good fun as i might only have two weeks to go before heading back so keep up the info its good reading and this Ford Chevy thing is good as I used to do the Holden Ford thing but now that I am a Ford owner I better shutup about Fords.

AnswerID: 569104

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