TIP # 149, New AC Unit, New Gas, New Start Up Loads, New Genset Recommendations:

Submitted: Tuesday, Feb 13, 2007 at 21:47
ThreadID: 123324 Views:4811 Replies:4 FollowUps:2
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Hello Fellow Boggers,
We have a mandated new gas required for the AC units, part of a world wide shift to more "Environmentally Friendly" gases, and Dometic is the first to implement this… This new compressor system will reportedly run at higher compression… And it is a truly reverse cycle unit, in that it runs in both directions: One way for heat and another way for cooling, with the condenser and evaporator changing roles with electric solenoid valves… Mind you I have not torn one apart yet... Any way the point:

There have been problems as reported in a Thread on the Owners Forum, with a small number of Honda 2.0i Generators shutting down in really hot weather when used to run the air conditioner that we have been using for many years.. For the 98% of people using it, it has proven satisfactory, but about 2% maybe 2-3 out of 100, have had the generators shutting down on overload in the really hot weather. It is just on the edge of marginal maximum duty cycle in 38-40+ hot weather for two principle Engineering reasons:

1) Firstly in 38-40 degree weather the compressor pulls slightly more current principally due to heat generated resistance loads and higher gas back pressure…

2) And secondly in the same weather the generators actually lose capacity with heat loading and these two factors go in opposing and antagonistic directions… Most people get away with it, but if you have been reading the Owners Forum, a very few Boggers for one of these reasons or another, have had the generators shutting down…

There is a new factor in this which can sway the outcome:

We are using this new Air Conditioning unit now. All other brands will be forced to comply and switch over to the new system in the next 12-18 months. We have a request in to the Manufacturer, from the National Distributor, to see if the loadings on start up will aggravate the current conditions listed above or not. While the “Say” the start up loads are comparable, I want to know exactly which side of the line they are on. The compression is higher, which makes me think the current loads might be on the higher side, aggravating the situation. We have email in to the Engineering Techies now, and should have an answer which I will Post when we receive it in the next couple of days. In the mean time I think you New Boggers should re-evaluate your generator needs, and hold off on purchase for just a little bit…

There is a Honda 3.0i retails for twice the price at $3999, twice the price of the 2.0i, slightly quieter, but it weighs in at 60 kg…!!!! Too heavy to move… This is not an option in my opinion, although we have several running them on slide out trays and electric start. I would favor this idea: You can buy two of 2.0i units for the same money, the linkage kit is about $300, and run one in normal conditions or run two units in the extreme conditions if you are having problems… We have a number of Customers doing just that. Or you can look into the other generators available like Yamaha. The Honda 2.0i weighs in at 20 kg, and has a good longevity track record going back 25 years with Yachties all over the world, it is just flat out the worlds Leader. The Yamaha “Blue Whisper” series in 2.4 kva, is copying he style and is a serious Contender, but also a serious weight problem as the EF2400iS weighs a Whopping 32 kg, almost as much as two Honda 2.0i units!!! I am not sure this is an attractive option either….. Not when I was grunting it off the ground and into the locker.

You might consider the other options, but forget the cost, look at what you have to live with in terms of weight, and noise. If one of the many alternates comes in reasonable guidelines, then I would suggest you consider it as an alternative. But I do not know of an attractive alternate, mind you I have not spent much time looking either. I do not think it is worth fooling with the cheap Indian or Chinese generators that could put your electronics at risk or ruin the compressors with off frequency or off voltage variations. I would stay with the Japanese generators, but I would look at the alternates to Honda like the Yamaha IF and I say IF they were about the same weight and decibels of noise level… OK? The Honda is number one, because it is the lightest, quiet, and has an amazing track record for long life. The same in the Outback for Quad bikes. Professionals like Honda as the best, but you can always buy cheaper, just not sure about better.

I will Post the report from the Engineers when it comes back. FOR YOU NEW BOGGERS: IF it is on the heavier side of things, in trying to take care of you I would suggest you not depend on the Honda 2.0i running alone. Either get one of the alternates or two 2.0i per above. For now, hold off on buying a generator until I get this report back…

For you Veteran Boggers, and older vans: Look, the Honda 2.0i is still the King, and about 98% are running them satisfactorily.

Regards from LR, trying to take care of everyone… Dats my job, 24/7….

P.S. P.M….. Rabid Greenie? Please do not read the following:

With regards to the new gases, hybrid cars and new whitegoods: I am not convinced it is people that are the sole cause contributing to this global warming, as it is a cycle that repeats itself, proven back to the dawn of time with records in the permanent Ice Fields drill cores… I am fairly well educated, and it appears to me to be a lot of economic hype to stimulate the economy and sell new products like hybrid cars and new refrigerators and new AC units and new Automotive air conditioning and the rest… Yes we are having a mild global warming, but did you know that this solar cycle of activity hits a peak around 2011? It may not even be much of a contributor, but there have been global warming and global cooling cycles with some frequency from early this century well recorded as far back as the great global cooling cycle of 1250 AD that deep snow drifted Paris and contributed to the “Dark Ages”… Most people do not know that this is a reoccurring cycle as frequently as 50 years. It just happens, back before fossil fuels and before we as humans could have contributed to the cause… Yes it is happening right now, that is not a question, but it has been happening for thousands of years in a Sine Wave fashion of global warming and global cooling cycles since before man could have affected it!!! Now it has been seized upon by the Leftists that want Socialism. Now it is being force fed to us; forcing us to buy new styles of white goods and automotive goods… ?? Maybe I am just cynical, but I am also fairly well educated and I just don’t buy it 100%. We are not even a microscopic flea on the back of the huge Cosmic forces that cycle our global temperature flux higher and lower; and these cycles are proven for thousands of years before we were burning fossil fuels, with records preserved in the ice fields. Now if there are any Rabid Greenies out there, you can hate me, but I would bet I am right and this whole thing will pass…. I think it is just socially correct and popular, but based on economic stimulus to cattle prod us into spending on new styles of equipment to stimulate stagnant world economies….. And Politically correct, to try and decouple our dependence on Muslim controlled oil supplies… But I would bet it has really little to do with the current global warming cycle…

Yea, yea, my Rave for the month… Anyway…. Bloody Redneck lone Ranger, what does he know?
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Reply By: NIK `N` OFF - Wednesday, Feb 14, 2007 at 05:19

Wednesday, Feb 14, 2007 at 05:19
Good news that the AC is a true reverse cycle unit, like the Aircommand i presume.

We already own a 2ui Honda, had no problems using it to run the Coleman Mach1V AC, fingers crossed that it runs the new Dometic as well.

I like the slimline look of the Dometic's are the new ones in the same style Steve?

AnswerID: 570603

Follow Up By: Bushtracker - Wednesday, Feb 14, 2007 at 18:16

Wednesday, Feb 14, 2007 at 18:16
I will have all the answers tomorrow when I am back in the Shop.... Stewart and others, yes it is in Production now. I want to get a jump on the new gas as soon as possible, because the next step for the Gullible Greenies will be Economic Sanctions on the old gas.....

Doing the best we can for you.... Talk with you all tomorrow... Regards, Ranger
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FollowupID: 847215

Reply By: Turist - Wednesday, Feb 14, 2007 at 06:27

Wednesday, Feb 14, 2007 at 06:27
Is it lthis one Steve?

Bob
"Do It While You Can"
Nobody is getting any younger.

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AnswerID: 570604

Follow Up By: Bushtracker - Thursday, Feb 15, 2007 at 19:55

Thursday, Feb 15, 2007 at 19:55
No Bob,

Slightly different model, B3200 in Australia..

And I am still waiting for more Engineering data on it... They say it is true reverse cycle, but it still also has a heating element booster.. Probably because true reverse cycle is really slow on the heating side, only invented in the big snow country as it was better on power consumption on the heating side, but really slow on the uptake. I mean slow, like you would wait for a half an hour for much of a heating affect.

I would stick with the old Cal 136, but the Greenie Gas Laws have stopped production...

On that note, my Thanks to Jeff P**** for his support with a Scientific Article debunking the human contribution cause of the current Global Warming, with the proof of the cycles going back far longer than before the Beverly Hillbillies struck oil... Ha! Ha! The article Jeff sent charts the global cooling and warming cycles on the huge perspective of thousands of years. But there are small global warming cycles as common as twice in a century within the larger cycles... Long before we could have contributed. Jeff has cheered me on....

And the dreaded Carbon Dioxide emissions... OH NO! ????? Yea right, increasing levels of Carbon Dioxide is beneficial to plant growth... Plants thrive on it.. "Increasing atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide will have negligible impact on the earths radiation balance and will promote plant growth everywhere" courtesy Lavoisier Group...

We are being sold an economic stimulus package to bleed our bank accounts. About the only thing I can see beneficial is Hybrid Cars and Busses in the most polluted inner cities. They transfer the pollution out of the air in the inner cities to power plants outside the inner cities that make the energy to either plug in the cars or make the hydrogen... That would spread the pollution out and increase air quality in the cities.. OK.. The rest of it I really have my doubts about. I for one miss Freon. And now it looks like I am going to miss 134-A gas as well .... Ha!

Best Regards from the lone Ranger, research is all I do, and all I will do, besides horse work of course... Trying to do it better full time, is my business...
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FollowupID: 847216

Reply By: Bushtracker - Tuesday, Feb 20, 2007 at 21:40

Tuesday, Feb 20, 2007 at 21:40
Alright, here it is, sorry for the Delay, but the answers were slow in coming...

SHORT ANSWER: NO DIFFERENCE.... But it does vary a bit on the lighter side. It appears that there will be a NIL affect on running with the Honda 2.0i

Head pressure nearly identical Cal 126 New B3200
Unit Amps 6.01 5.97

35 Degree heat start up loading 1335 watts 1331 watts

46 DEGREE HEAT start up loading 1542 watts 1540 watts

So, in a Nutshell, I would say there is a nil affect on the Honda 2.0i using the new air units....

Best Regards to all, Ranger... researching full time is my lifestyle....
AnswerID: 570605

Reply By: Toomelah - Wednesday, Feb 21, 2007 at 09:09

Wednesday, Feb 21, 2007 at 09:09
Steve
We had aour second BT built with 'provision for air conditioning' since we spend alot of time in the bush and do not want the extra weight of a generator. Will the new unit fit in the space of the old 'provision'?
AnswerID: 570606

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