Wednesday, Jul 18, 2007 at 02:01
DONMAR et al,
Here's my battery story that may be of interest to Boggers.
DECEMBER 05 EMAIL TO STG @
BUSHTRACKER.............
Good morning Steve,
Before I put anything on the
BOG Posting in response to your report on the new battery chargers, I thought I’d email you directly with this news. Your report included the following report on the new batteries:-
“Also, we start a new year, the second year on our new AGM x Hybrid German A-200 Gel Batteries, without a single fault or failure!! That is very impressive, even with some occasions of accidental abuse reported, with over 600 running in Bushtrackers with our charger, we have not had a single failure. The new batteries are performing fantastically.”
Perhaps there has been some “accidental abuse’’ on my part, and if so, I am on a mission to find out what this was, and how it should NOT have occurred, and, to ensure that it won’t happen again. Here is the story.
On 21 April,2005 I had three of the new batteries sent to me at the caravan park in Nuriootpa, SA, after Peter and I derived that the 2yr 10month old Delco batteries were on their last legs. We were at the beginning of a 3 month Red Centre – Top End trip so I considered it a wise move. We sent the Charger to Omegalec to have it recalibrated, and by 2nd May we were on our way north with the new batteries installed, without losing a day in our itinerary. Excellent Service BTI and thanks again.
We had a trouble free trip which included some pretty rough going on roads like the Pedirka Track into Dalhousie, the Merini Loop road, the Old south road between Chambers Pillar and the Alice, and the Camooweal to Lawn Hill road. We went to Copeton 05 and then to BTI for new stove, door repairs and fridge cabinet re-seal. Other than that, the van is kept in its garage.
Last week we were at Windamere Dam near Rylstone and on the third morning we noticed the fridge compressor was struggling. The Pro-star was reading 12.8 volts and the charger was not working. The van had been out of it’s garage for 5 sunny days. In addition, the inverter was not working and it had the bottom red LED light on indicating “undervolt”. So, I unscrewed the battery box lid and found the mess shown in the photo under Pictures (Tellem Bugrem…Battery Problem) on the
BOG site.
Both stainless steel terminal bolts on the centre battery had corroded and the leads were disconnected. The –ve terminal bolt of the right battery had also corroded its head off.
(I am sure all bolts were tight after installation as I always double check) The left battery was okay and tested at 13.5v. The other 2 had not lost charge for some reason….they tested at 13.2 and 13.3v.
We switched the fridge to run off the 240 through our retro-fitted Waeco Mobitronic MPS 50 rectifier. I then took the two affected batteries out, cleaned off the blob of green gel, corrosion debris and residual acid and then extracted the remains of the terminal bolts. They can be seen alongside an unaffected bolt, in the other photo on the
BOG site. All three bolts were the same distance into the female thread, indicating that the bolts had probably not become loose. I noticed bubbles of acid coming out of the joints of the central “lid” on the tops of both the affected batteries.
The female threads were not damaged and I had some spare SS bolts to fit, even though they were countersink Philips-head. So, with SS washers, I reinstalled the batteries.
There was still no charge coming from the charger. Checked the fuse and it was blown. The Inverter was still not working so I took it out, disconnected all leads and reconnected them. Still no change. Liz went into Rylstone and found a replacement fuse for the charger and when installed, it appeared to be working okay. The inverter though, had changed its indicator LED to green flashing rapidly, on “Standby”.
When we arrived home, (350km with 60km gravel), I checked the batteries again and the same two batteries were leaking at several points around the central “lid” joint, and at the terminals. In fact, you can hear a slight hissing coming from them. The inverter is providing 240v at the power points, with the green standby LED flashing at about pulse rate.
Do I have a couple of “Dud” batteries or has there been some accidental misuse?
When in storage we occasionally run the fridge for a few days with the charger switched off, until the batteries are lowered to about 12v. Then the charger goes back on and they charge back up to 13.8v.
The only other possibility I can think of is some damage occurring whilst I had some welding done, raising the position of the stabilizer legs that were installed by Vehicle Components, and, making the steps removable by welding on a couple of “ball bearing gate hinges” and pull down latches (lockable)…see my photos on the
BOG site.
Kind regards………………..Rob Caldwell
11 December, 2005
HERE IS THE FOLLOW-UP WITH STEVE'S COMMENTS IN INVERTED COMMAS............
Steve,
"Hello Rob,"
You will recall the saga of the leaking batteries that culminated in Uri Scharf bringing 3 new batteries to me when he picked up his van last February. Subsequently, when we visited the factory in late May where you apparently found that the Pro Star had been set to "flooded" and that this, you explained, had "cooked" the batteries. You or John changed the setting to "sealed" and we set off on our trip to Cape York.
"Yes I remember…"
We were on the road for two months. "OK"
Last week I was carrying out our 6 monthly check and found that two of the new batteries were leaking again, but this time the terminals were not damaged. The leaking is around the "sealed" cap and there is a hissing sound emitting. "Rob, these batteries have proven to be extremely robust in every facet of service over the past two years. They are designed to “vent” on the high end of the voltage range, and this is normal. If they did not vent, and something went wrong with the regulator or charger, the internal pressure would build up until they actually blew up…"
Any ideas as to what is causing this repeat problem.?? "It is not really a problem. This is the same situation, but in a normal range. About half of them will normally vent a tiny bit of electrolyte for a while. They ALL WILL VENT some little bit of gas in the top end of the charging state. Just keep an eye on them."
I certainly haven't cooked them because I had the wrong setting on the Pro Star this time and, besides, I did find it hard to believe that the solar panels could provide the current to COOK the batteries, especially as the van was stored in a shed for 5 of the 9 months I had the batteries. "Look, I would not worry about it, clean it up with a little bit of sodium bicarb, and carry on. They will only vent excessively when being OVERCHARGED… You should not see the voltage on them exceed about 14.4 volts, maybe 14.5."
Since installing the batteries 9 months ago, the van has been in the Garage except for the two month trip to Cape York and one month on an "Unsuitable for Caravans" excursion in NSW.. "I do not think you have a problem, this is normal, it is only when you just about boil the electrolyte at higher voltages that it pools out on top and corrodes the terminals that you have a problem…"
The charger was sent back to Omegalec for recalibration at the time the previous batteries were installed. Two of those batteries leaked and the terminals corroded. Is there any way of checking the charger so that I know if Omegalec recalibrated correctly?? "No, I think everything is just fine, watch your voltages, and don’t worry about it. Get back to me if you ever see the voltages over about 14.4 volts…"
"Here is an article I wrote, TIP # 78 on the
BOG about a year ago………
TIP # 78 Maintenance Required for “Maintenance Free” Batteries…
Friends, Romans, Countrymen,
Bushtracker Owners, lend me your ears. Out of about 600 so far of our new batteries, we have had no failures so far, even though a few people have reported “accidental abuse” to the point that other batteries would have failed, we have had zero failures so far.. However, we have had four batteries out of over 600, that leaked a little gel out the venting, possibly overfilled a little. This subsided in time.
Now, one fellow Bogger has corrosion discovered on his terminals and has put pictures on the
BOG. While it is statistically possible that he has two of those, but I think it more likely they were slightly compressed in shipping as we have no control of what they stack on top. I have sent him the following Email as I think we can all benefit and learn from it: “ We have had four batteries that leaked a little around the fill ports, out of hundreds and hundreds, and that subsided in time as they were slightly overfilled. I would suggest that yours are possibly in that company, but unlikely. It is most probably a case of the battery cases themselves slightly depressed on shipment with something heavy on top, and so you have a little gel coming out instead of the normal minor gassing on the high end over 14 volts. All batteries have this happen, just in gas form… They are called Sealed, but on the high end of the charging cycle they will still slightly gas off... Yours are a bit overfull due to this compression of the case, maybe a tad overfilled from new even. This will subside in time, and I am afraid the logical point is to just inspect them and give them a top wipe down clean once a month until it stops.. The batteries are just tanks of electrolyte, and in your case due to one cause or another they are slightly overfull. If in fact you could hear a slight gassing noise, then the electrolyte is probably down enough now that it will not happen much in the future anyway…
My guess is there is nothing wrong with their function, just a little messy. For that you have my apology, but it is just the luck of the draw, and my suspicion is they came down with something heavy on top in transit to maybe just slightly deform the case down a mm or two… They are doing what they are designed to do on the high end of the charging cycle and vent just a little, that is why we still put so called “sealed” batteries in a sealed vented battery box.. Nothing that will matter in the long run… Sorry for the inconvenience but there is no way we could have prevented shipping from putting heavy things on top, this is just the luck of the draw…” (end of email)
Now, for all of us, this is a lesson to be learned in all of this, and so my TIP # 78 that you should all inspect them a few times a year. Minor corrosion is unlikely for the 98%, but look anyway. there could be other faults you may find like a loose terminal, bolts coming loose, even breakage as the corrugation takes its toll and this is probably about 100 times more likely than discovering any corrosion. An inspection is called for, maybe to be safe every couple of months when new, and at least once or twice a year when you are settled in…
I think two of the words in modern Battery Terminology are over rated… One is “Sealed” – None of them are truly sealed, they gas off slightly on the high end of the charging cycle. If they were totally sealed, they would blow up, especially if they were overcharged by some regulator failure. Second terminology that is over rated is “Maintenance Free”. That does not mean you should not look at them occasionally, what it means is you are not having to add water every two weeks with them bubbling away corrosive gas.. There can still be the small chance of corrosion, but it is hugely reduced, and is probably not going to show up in the 95% or 98%, however the real science of the matter should be viewed as “98% maintenance free in practice, greatly corrosion reduced, and not needing bi-weekly attendance to water levels…” OK?
Kind Regards from the Ranger….
THE BATTERIES ARE NOW WORKING FINE, MAINTAINING 13.8v, AND RISING TO 14.3 IN FULL SUN.
BY THE WAY, THE GGM'S DIDN'T FIT IN THE BOX BUILT FOR DELCOS AND I HAD TO MODIFY IT WITH THE ELECTRIC CHAINSAW - NO HASSLES!!
REGARDS TO ALL..............ROB
AnswerID:
572468
Follow Up By: Motherhen & Rooster - Thursday, Jul 19, 2007 at 08:42
Thursday, Jul 19, 2007 at 08:42
Hi Rob - We got leaky ones too. BT replaced the one which leaked so much it dissolved the box and no-one would transport it past Broome. Took us quite some weeks before anyone would bring them further than Broome. The others needed wiping daily for quite some time, but it did not affect their performance in any way. The replacement did not leak. After our disaster story, Steve vowed never to send 'em to WA again.
Setting the ProStar for the AGMs was so easy, and the battery charger (not an original from BT and about to be replaced by us anyway) just needing checking so as not to exceed a certain voltage (i forgot exact voltage so won't quote from my bad memory).
So far we are happy with the AGMs from BT, but if out in the sticks would replace them with what ever we could get - we could always use standard batteries in vehicles and equipment when we get home.
| Motherhen
Red desert dreaming
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