F250 Water in Fuel
Submitted: Friday, Apr 03, 2009 at 19:13
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GoneTroppo
G'day all, haven't been around for a bit as I have been doing a few of the "bits" on the F250.
I've gone for the ARB suspension as suggested here, just put in synthetic winch rope etc etc.
Things were going well until the day before yesterday.
This is a 2005 7.3l. It cranks but doesn't start.
The Superchip DTC tells me P1139 WIF circuit fault.
The Ford dealer service manager tells me its probably a P1140 WIF condition and I can't read it right because I don't have a Ford reader yabba yabba yabba yabba etc etc Besides they are booked up for two weeks and the next nearest dealer is 120k away So I'm between a rock and a hard place with Easter comimg up. :-(
I don't really believe him but just to be sure I drained the filter/seperator as per the manual, however the fault remains.
The WIF light does not come on with the other instrument lights when I switch the ignition on. To be honest I can't remember if it ever did. I suppose it must have done, if that is what is supposed to happen.
So I assume I am looking for a circuit fault but where do I start looking. (I don't have a great track record with electrics) Do I need to pull the dash apart to get to the blown globe?
Is a WIF circuit fault a showstopper as I'm experiencing or should I be looking for something completey different.
Any advice or suggestions are much appreciated.
Reply By: NIK `N` OFF - Saturday, Apr 04, 2009 at 02:21
Saturday, Apr 04, 2009 at 02:21
I see you asked the question on the Diesel Stop
forum, i went there looking for a possible answer.
i checked my Effy and i do not get the WIF light on when starting.
Quote During refueling it is possible for water contaminated diesel fuel to be pumped into your tank. Your vehicle is equipped with a water seperator to remove water from the fuel. The WIF light will illuminate when the ignition is turned to start when the fuel filter/water seperator has a significant quantity of water in it.
Refer to general maintainance for drain procedure. End Quote
IF water is not the problem......
Is the superchip DTC a chip or just code reader? If it's a chip maybe try resetting it back to stock to see if it starts?
I have heard of the CPS sensor causing problems with engine starting & rough running, usually the engine just turns off though.
AnswerID:
577463
Follow Up By: NIK `N` OFF - Saturday, Apr 04, 2009 at 02:32
Saturday, Apr 04, 2009 at 02:32
Sorry i just re-read and saw you have checked the water in fuel and drained.
Im grasping at straws myself, i'd be inclined to try stock setting on chip, or possibly the CPS [cam position sensor]
sorry i cant be of more help.
FollowupID:
851033
Follow Up By: GoneTroppo - Saturday, Apr 04, 2009 at 03:17
Saturday, Apr 04, 2009 at 03:17
Mick
Thanks for taking the trouble.
The superchip is a combined chip and code reader.
Setting it back to standard was one of the first things I did. No difference.
If your WIF light does not come on, on ignition and what you quote from the manual it seems it's not supposed to.
I'm thinking CPS also, so much so I have ordered 2 ex US today hopefully be here next week.
It seems unlikely that a WIF circuit switch fault would stop it firing???? But I can't get difinitive answer on it.
Cheers
Chris
FollowupID:
851034
Follow Up By: NIK `N` OFF - Saturday, Apr 04, 2009 at 03:50
Saturday, Apr 04, 2009 at 03:50
Yes that is correct,
the WIF light only comes on when approximately 100ml of water accumulates in the seperator.
Good luck with it Chris, let us know how you get on, this could be good info for the proposed tow vehicle info section Turist suggested.
FollowupID:
851035
Reply By: Gone Bush - Saturday, Apr 04, 2009 at 03:48
Saturday, Apr 04, 2009 at 03:48
Mick & Chris, it's timely that you mention the Cam Angle Sensor. I don't have an Effie but a good friend of mine has and here is his experience with the Cam Angle Sensor.
He was on the way back from Victoria towing a caravan about a month ago and had a couple of hiccups which he blamed on dirty fuel. Then it stopped completely but re-started. Then when he got home it stopped again and would not re-start.
He has had it at a good workdhop for the last month without any success.
Another friend took his Effie down there and allowed them to try different components off his onto Ron's.
Still not starting.
The Cam Angle Sensor has two variants, one with a black probe and one with a white probe. The black one is prone to failure and has been superceded so always choose the white one.
They now have the correct Cam Angle Sensor but still can't get it started. Very perplexed. They have referred to all sorts of reliable sources with no result.
However, once it is fixed it's being moved on. Probably to be replaced by a 200 Series Cruiser.
I'll let you know the final result.
AnswerID:
577464
Follow Up By: NIK `N` OFF - Saturday, Apr 04, 2009 at 04:03
Saturday, Apr 04, 2009 at 04:03
quote / However, once it is fixed it's being moved on. Probably to be replaced by a 200 Series Cruiser. ............end quote
Poor bugger ...... excessive oil useage, tailshaft clunk, cracking chassis, stuff all payload without GVM upgrade, useless 6th gear, stalling, vibration, power loss in hot weather, creaking interior trim,
:-)
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Gone Bush - Saturday, Apr 04, 2009 at 04:53
Saturday, Apr 04, 2009 at 04:53
You can take the man out of LCOOL but you can't take LCOOL out of the man.
Eventually you'll remember why you thought Landcruisers were cool, and you'll be back.
FollowupID:
851037
Reply By: NIK `N` OFF - Saturday, Apr 04, 2009 at 04:05
Saturday, Apr 04, 2009 at 04:05
Chris some more info here
Site Link
take note what is said about the tacho moving when engine being cranked,
also oil level and check for fuel from fuel pump
AnswerID:
577465
Follow Up By: Gone Bush - Saturday, Apr 04, 2009 at 04:56
Saturday, Apr 04, 2009 at 04:56
Mick I can't get into that site because I'm not registered. Is that post relevent to my friends issue, engine died, won't start?
If so could you cut and paste and email it to me please? I'll pass it on.
cheers
FollowupID:
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Reply By: NIK `N` OFF - Saturday, Apr 04, 2009 at 04:11
Saturday, Apr 04, 2009 at 04:11
Me again :-)
How to check Glow Plug System
Site Link
AnswerID:
577466
Reply By: Silver and Tinks - Sunday, Apr 05, 2009 at 04:58
Sunday, Apr 05, 2009 at 04:58
HI MICK
I am with you, our friends have just sold there 08 200 and going back to the Effie
We will be keeping our 05 Effie for some time.
Best wishes Scott
AnswerID:
577467
Follow Up By: Gone Bush - Sunday, Apr 05, 2009 at 05:40
Sunday, Apr 05, 2009 at 05:40
Scott and Mick,
I am always prepared to take on other peoples' opinions, and I will think of you both as I daily drive past the workshop (in my 200 Series) where my friend's LIFELESS, DEAD in the WATER, INERT, and now REJECTED F250 sits while scores of mechanics scratch their heads.
cheers gents, glad we have a choice and glad we all have a sense of humour
seeya
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851039
Reply By: Downunder - Sunday, Apr 05, 2009 at 07:18
Sunday, Apr 05, 2009 at 07:18
I have never had the WIF situation yet (hopefully never) so I cannot offer any advice other than to say the Ford code readers which are supposed to be capable of looking a lot further into the electronics than the Superchips job.
From reading some of the forums in the US the solution to some of the problems bears no resemblance to the fault that is indicting. I will have alook and see if I can find anything on this one.
On the issue of an F250 "hiccupping", I had a similar problem where it would 'miss' like a petrol engine can do, only momentarily and when I slowed down to stop, it stalled yet it would start again straight away. Long and the short of it when I finally got it to the dealer at Southport Qld was a faulty injector pressure sensor. I have searched my records from Ford but can't find the fault code that came up. I assume your friend has got a fault code number?
As far as the Cam Position Sensor (CPS) goes, Ford in the US did a recall and replaced the original factory unit with a new unit that is supposed to be better. The correct part number is F7TZ-12K073-B and they only cost about $8-$10 (USD).
I don't know why Ford Australia has not done the same, I might have to find out.
Hope this helps and for all F250 owners can you post any outcomes so we can all learn.
Regards,
Bill
AnswerID:
577468
Reply By: GoneTroppo - Sunday, Apr 05, 2009 at 19:11
Sunday, Apr 05, 2009 at 19:11
Thank you everyone for your input, suggestions and research.
Fo the record I have had more and better advice here than anywhere else.
Take a bow Boggers.
I'm coming more and more around to the conclusion that the CPS is the culprit.
No tacho at crank seems to be a giveaway.
I'm still surprised that here is no fault code showing up for the CPS.
With a bit of luck I'll see the new part by Thursday and be up and running again.
As an aside to this, isn't it amazing the ability modern vehicles (stuffed full of electronic wizardry) have to make you feel so utterly helpless when they won't run. I don't have a clue what half the stuff under the bonnet does let alone how to fix it and then you have to remove 4 things to get at the bit you want to get at.
Sometimes I think old technology, simple systems and simple faultfinding had a lot going for it. Think I'll go for drive in my Bedford this morning, it'll make me fell better!!!!!
I'll give an update when I'm mobile again.
Chris
AnswerID:
577469
Follow Up By: Motherhen & Rooster - Monday, Apr 06, 2009 at 03:49
Monday, Apr 06, 2009 at 03:49
I hope the CPS cures the problem Chris. It is a worry taking a computerised motor into the outback, but so far we have had no problems with ours. We purchased a spare CPS, plus radiator hoses and belt from powerstrokeshop in USA when we got the F250, so the insurance worked - we didn't need them.
Motherhen
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Reply By: Gone Bush - Wednesday, Apr 08, 2009 at 04:43
Wednesday, Apr 08, 2009 at 04:43
OK, referring to my post above about my friends F250, they have found the cause.
Now, please read this in the knowledge that I am NOT a mechanic and I am passing on what I gleaned, as a NON mechanic, from our conversation.
It was the oil pump.
The oil pump on the F250 is outside the engine on the front of the crankshaft. Most oil pumps are inside the sump, forever soaked in oil. Ron's oil pump appears to have been pressed onto the crankshaft out of skew by a bee's dick. Over his 70,000klms the moving part(s) in the pump wore on each other and this was what happened:
Normally the pump pumps oil up to a sensor which detects the required oil pressure and then allows the engine to fire. However, if you park the vehicle UPHILL, and the innards of the pump are worn they will allow the oil to drain back into the engine and the pump initially pumps air. Eventually after sufficient wear and tear the pump simply will not pump oil at all, then the sensor says, I will not allow the engine to start.
They were initially thrown off the track because they tried another sensor without a result and oil pumps rarely wear out.
Anyway, one new pump and everything should be AOK.
hope this helps, rare as it may be.
AnswerID:
577470
Follow Up By: NIK `N` OFF - Saturday, Apr 18, 2009 at 03:52
Saturday, Apr 18, 2009 at 03:52
Sounds a simple fix after all Stephen, lets hope Toyo's fix on the 200's oil consumption is as easily rectified.
:-)
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Follow Up By: Gone Bush - Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 05:19
Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 05:19
Sounds like a simple fix....
But not in practice Mick. To replace the oil pump the BODY had to be unbolted and lifted off !!
Sounds ugly now.
cheers
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Follow Up By: NIK `N` OFF - Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 05:55
Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 05:55
I won't dispute what you have written Stephen but one has to wonder if things have to go to such extreme, in my short 56 years on this planet i have met many 'experts' who do things differently to the 'norm' when there is usually a simple method.
I hear Toyota have sorted the useless 6th gear out on the Toyo's, software update and all fixed ........ gotta like technology :-)
FollowupID:
851043
Follow Up By: Gone Bush - Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 06:14
Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 06:14
The work was done by Lane Ford here in Mandurah Mick, so I guess if there was an easier way they would have chosen it.
Love the black & white photos on your latest Blog page but your new format has kicked me off as a "Follower". Oh well, I'll get over it.
cheers to you and Vicki.
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Follow Up By: NIK `N` OFF - Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 06:43
Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 06:43
Lane Ford Huh .... ok they have sold many Effy's so who am i to wonder ....... :-)
Sorry about the follower delete, that was me ... new format & i pushed buttons LOL
but
In truth i felt inadequate that i had only ONE follower of our travels ..... by having none i can at least imagine the whole cyber World is following our adventures :-) Just wait for the Book LOL
FollowupID:
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Reply By: GoneTroppo - Saturday, Apr 18, 2009 at 00:38
Saturday, Apr 18, 2009 at 00:38
I installed the new CPS unit, (not a nice spot to get at I have the skun knuckles to prove it) Turned the key engine spins over but doers not start.
In other words same as before so CPS in not the problem.
I said a few words "oh bother" may have been amongst them. Then I went inside and had a beer. Not because of the car but because it was beer o'clock.
So back to the drawing board, fault code is still "WIF circuit" so climb on top of motor poke lead light into places and lo an behold there is a second sensor waaaaay down the bottom of the fuel filter.
Two wires at the back of the plug neatly chewed through.
(I live on a cattle property in the tropics and rats do get into things even though we have baits everywhere)
Fiddly job to doctor up the break and reassemble the plug.
Plug everything in, turn the key, fires immediately
Issue finally resolved!!!!
Moral of the story, if the fault diagnosis thingy tells you it's code P1139, believe it until you have checked EVERYTHING in that circuit and you can prove it's wrong.
Thanks everyone for your advice and assistance.
Chris
AnswerID:
577471
Follow Up By: NIK `N` OFF - Saturday, Apr 18, 2009 at 03:49
Saturday, Apr 18, 2009 at 03:49
Hi Chris,
if it had of been replacement of the CPS and Effy start that would have been a good outcome, that it didn't work and you investigated further and found out what the problem was is also a help to any other F250 owners out there.
I'm that pleased for you i am having a Scotch o'clock right now to celebrate :-)
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Reply By: Downunder - Saturday, Apr 18, 2009 at 04:35
Saturday, Apr 18, 2009 at 04:35
Well done Chris, I can only imagine your relief when you found the chewed wires and the smile when you fixed it and it flashed straight up.
These are the sort of things that should be in a file for reference. Perhpas that was what what Bob was on about in a post a few days back.
Cheers,
Bill
AnswerID:
577472
Follow Up By: Motherhen & Rooster - Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 03:15
Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 03:15
Hi Bill
I have put a link to this thread in the F250 board of the new vehicle
forum. Thanks to Chris for coming back and giving us the solution.
Committee have chosen to keep the vehicles
forum members only, so non BT owners are still welcome to ask vehicle and other questions here on the general
forum.
Motherhen
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