Tow vechicle

Teresa,

The longer wheel base definitely helps with stability but because you mentioned "Caravan Sway Control" I take it that you have sway problems sometimes.

We had a 100 series towing our 21ft van and suffered from sway after we had 2 extra water tanks fitted. This caused our ball weight to be too low and we changed the location of the water tanks and the batteries and that solved the problem.

I measured the ball weight the other day and it was 250kgs and the van is 3500kgs if we fill all the water tanks.

I suggest that if you have sway problems that you check your ball weight, because on our first trip after having the 2 extra water tanks fitted we came to grief.

Brian

Does anybody know what the insurance/legal implications of removal of seats are?
I was told once that one must have the number of seating positions available as stated on the compliance plate or registration certificate or something.
Something else that was raised once was that the centre row of seats contribute towards the vehicle's torsional rigidity. Those centre seats and mounting brackets are certainly a bit of a job to remove, at least in the 100 series.
All seems a bit strange to me, but other views would be interesting.
The weight saving is certainly an appealing factor, also makes it easier to turn down a hitchhiker!.
BobH
BTW Stephen, did you have a birthday party for your BT on 14 October? (!!) LOL :)

Hi Bob

As far as i can ascertain, temporary removal of seats is OK. We took seats out of our Patrol for our trips and put them back on return. We do similar with the seats in the half cab of the F250, taking both on only one side out depending on our needs at the time. Only permanent removal is a modification. If a vehicle needs the seats to hold it rigid i don't want to be in it! :o

Motherhen

Removal of seats and compliance issues are a factor in Queensland, if your vehicle is registered in that State, but, apparently, nowhere else.

The seats in my 200 are as heavy as lead compared to those in my previous 80 series. It takes 2 of us to carry the larger one of the 60/40 seats in my GXL.

And yes, Bob. We spent a few days away laste week in the van. Up the new Indian Ocean Drive, across through Dandaragan, Moora, Wongan Hills, Goomalling, Toodyay. Beautiful country and a fitting birthday trip.

To give us a bit of extra room in the car for our recent Simpson desert trip I looked at removing the rear seats. Before I do anything to the car/van/trailer I always check with the ACT rego office. They are very helpful and the tech officer told me that the rules also require the removal of the seat belts. They would then issue a new seating compliance plate if I wanted.

Stephen, Personally (and this is my personal opinion) in hindsight I think to use these vans for what they are designed for, a 19ft van should be the maximum BTi should recommend behind the likes of the 200 series cruiser otherwise we are all playing the what do we leave behind game or don't fill all the water tanks or only carry two of everything, Whats the point in having them if we can not use them to their full potential. When we were in the so called design process, we told them we wanted a 19ft maybe 20ft as we were concerned about the weight factor and did not want to be towing on the upper limit all the time. Also we would like to be able to put a tool box on the front as we did not want the genny, chainsaw etc in the cargo hold, we told them we wanted 4 water tanks, 4 batteries and 4 solar panels, Ok we may have got carried away with it all, in the excitement but they meaning BTi should have said "hang on a moment you've only got a 200 series, weight is now going to be an issue" but no they said "Oh you can have a 21ft in the rear ensuite design and still weigh the same as the 20 footer and still be OK behind the cruiser and led us to believe that we would still be around 2800 maximum. Our tare plate says 2780, Like others we weighed van completely empty literally stripped it, took out all water plugs so that when we went to weigh bridge it would have shaken most of the water out of the pipes etc (although I still allowed 20ks in there as recommended by Steve Gibbs. Without tool box and associated brackets and yes we even weighed the screws and bolts (54ks) Oh and I allowed another 20ks for TV and associated brackets, backboards etc not to mention 23ks in the hot water system we still came in over 2900, allowing for those extras we are 3ton. The gear in the tool box weighs 86ks, then you fill the fridge and pantry, theres bugger all left, Looks like we go naked. We don't blame BTI the buck stops with us, we made the decision But if I had my time again I would not have gone over 19ft behind the cruiser as I also love my car and have spent, like a lot of others a lot of money setting it up. I WOULD STRONGLY SUGGEST TO ANY NEWCOMERS THINK TWICE BEFORE YOU FALL INTO A FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY THAT 21FT IS OK BEHIND A CRUISER NOT IF YOU WANT TO USE IT TO ITS FULL POTENTIAL. In saying that we love our van and don't want to part with it hence us looking at the Silverado.
I know there will be others who disagree and thats Ok with me this is my opinion only and may mean diddly squat to others, but if it helps others not be in the same position as us (and I know quite a few who are) then it can only be a good thing that I write this. I also realise that this issue is not just confined to BT's I am sure that other so called off roaders would have the same problem.
Stephen I made many queries in regards to layouts etc on both forums and contacted some members personally and we felt we did our homework, I pestered BTi to the point I am sure they were sick of hearing from me but still here we are.
Just my thoughts on the weight situation.
Teresa

I agree that 19' is a good size BT, we have one :-)

But even being a 19' doesn't neccesarily make it a light weight, our tare is 2620kg and with a limit of 3500kg we still have to be aware of what we take.

Interestingly i have looked at a few 20' vans lately, and there appears to be very little difference in tare weights to ours.

We have done the opposite to what some owners are doing we used to tow with a F250 and now tow with a VDJ79 series Toyota, no back seats to worry about :-)

I haven't felt any stabilty problems towing, power is ample and we are back enjoying 4WD'n places we wouldn't have taken the larger vehicle.

Yes Stephen I do remember and yes you were of help to us particularly with the WDH instructions which we never got from BTi until I emailed them but by then I had a copy from you, Many thanks. We did as per the instructions and changed position and level and it has improved slightly but not enough for our liking. The only water tank I fill now is the drinking water and hubby takes little Honda water pump and we fill from the dams etc where we have been frequenting lately, its either that or caravan parks. I am very careful what and how we pack van. Which brings me back to my original comment. "Why pay all that money to have a van of this calibre if I can not use it for what it is designed for. I think the term I have heard used by a solictor (not mine) was "Not fit for purpose" Sorry if it sounds like i am bemoaning my lot, life could be a lot worse, its just frustrating when you fork out all that money and have a certain expectation only to find your bubble burst really quick.
Teresa

Teresa, it would be really interesting for you to find another 200 Series owner, with a BT between 19 and 21 ft and swap vehicles and vans and drivers and see if they feel different.

Why don't you take a quick trip over to WA and we will do that........

Thanks Stephen for the offer, your just a little too far away. Despite this we had in fact already thought about this as my sister has just picked hers up (21ft) and our good friends Sally and Todd also have a similar layout and they tow with a 200 series GXL. So I think we will try this when next we get together. Indeed I think it will be interesting to see if it is a pecularity of our setup. Also I think we will drop right down to the lowest hole in the 150mm hitch as you did. That is the only thing we have not tried yet.
Teresa

I'll just poke my nose into this one .
After nearly 6 years full time on the road our 2001 a/m turbo'd Troopy was getting a bit tired. so to do a repower job we had a 6.5 L Cevy V8 diesel (non-turbo)put in by Brunswick motors in WA. while we were working at Busselton.
we had 4.1 diffs put in as well and now it pulls like a tractor. not fast but who goes fast with 3.5 T of BT behind and 3.2 T in the Troopy.
It cost us $20,000 but that was far cheaper than upgrading to a new V8 troopy
It still gets the same 4.5 - 5 kl/L
Yes the van is on the weight limit and thats with only 1 and half tanks of water.
but then we do live in it full time and periodicly have to do a major throw out.

The biggest reason to us for staying with the Toyota is width.
You cannot get a F'y or "yank tank" down Ozzy bush tracks without one set of wheels being out in the stakes--- let alone not fitting between the trees.
I had an F100 once -- I know from experience.

If you don't intend to go bush then ignore this post.

That is a super important point to my mind, especially as people buy BTs to get off the beaten track.

I could never buy one of those big tanks to go detecting in WA. I would spend my whole time replacing staked sidewalls and looking at the scratch marks on the paintwork.

It not only affects where you go when you are towing, but where you can go when you have unhooked the van and want to explore.

Willie.