Fuel economy

Submitted: Monday, Nov 19, 2012 at 04:28
ThreadID: 128397 Views:8776 Replies:13 FollowUps:12
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Hi All
Looking at silverado and just checking on fuel economy of the diesel vehicle towing and just normal driving?
We have a 20' BT and currently using a LC200 which is a little hungry on fuel. Also requires a GVM upgrade to tow the van.


Cheers

Laurie
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Reply By: Gone Bush - Monday, Nov 19, 2012 at 05:41

Monday, Nov 19, 2012 at 05:41
What consumption are you getting with the 200 Series, Laurie?

And if you don't mind me asking, why do you need a GVM upgrade to tow your van? Is your van over 3500kg?

cheers

Stephen
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Reply By: aubs. - Monday, Nov 19, 2012 at 06:23

Monday, Nov 19, 2012 at 06:23
I tow with a Mitsubishi Canter 4x4 dual cab truck, 300lts water, Honda 420cc Quad and 2 full size tool boxes combined size 1.2deep x 900 high and 1.8 wide both chockers, towing a 20' BT with a 3" raised ceiling, 5 water tanks in total.

Our 17,000kms trip around the paddock we averaged 4.3kms per litre

Some thing to compare against

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Reply By: Gone Bush - Monday, Nov 19, 2012 at 07:21

Monday, Nov 19, 2012 at 07:21
I use litres/100km, so for the sake of an easy comparison, 4.3 km/litre is 23.5 litres/100km.

This is a post I put on the Factory Forum which I'll re-post here:



BEING KIND TO YOUR LC200 GEARBOX (and your wallet).

I just had my Scangauge upgraded so it could display the Transmission Fluid Temperature (TFT). If you recently purchased a Scangauge it will display TFT after you enter the appropriate parameters, but older ones, like mine, need to be upgraded.

Image Could Not Be Found

If you haven’t got one, you can buy them here:
Site Link

The parameters to enter are:
TXD: 07E121D9
RXF: 032100000000
RXD: 2808
MTH: 00010001FFD8
NAM: TFT

We just spent a few days out in WA’s north east wheatbelt exploring the granite rock outcrops with two other BT owners and I took the opportunity to experiment by driving to keep the temperature of my transmission fluid low.

It is a real education and flies in the face of my long held belief that low revs/tall gear were best for touring, economy and kindness to the vehicle.

Toyota recommends towing in S5. Driving in Sports mode allows the Torque Converter to lock up, given the right circumstances. It won’t lock up in Drive (D).

Now I prefer to drive at about 90kph. If I drive at 90 in S5, the TC will not lock up and the Scangauge shows these approximate figures:
RPM: 2300
L/100kms: 24
TFT: 85 to 90°C

However, if I drive at 90 in S4, the Scangauge shows these approximate figures:
RPM: 2200
L/100kms: 18
TFT: 60 to 65°C

18 litres/100km is 5.6 km/litre.

That is a real fuel saving and is being very, very kind to your transmission.

In the case of the 17000km trip referred to in the post above, using $1.50 per litre, that's a saving of $1275, and that's a conservative cost per litre.

Can readers double check those savings, I've had the calculator out twice and my head is hurting....

The only way I can get similar good figures in S5 is to speed up to about 100kph where the TC will lock. But I find that uncomfortable touring and it is very hard to keep the TC locked at that speed. Any slight incline or headwind will unlock the TC in S5.

The really interesting thing is that changing down (from S5, TC unlocked, TFT at about 85°C) to S4, you can see/feel the TC lock by the RPM dropping about 200 revs, the TFT readout drops very quickly to about 60°C, within a minute actually. And the fuel consumption improves by about 5 or so L/100kms.

So I think most of my towing will be in S4 from now on, and my Cruiser will thank me for it.
Stephen
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Follow Up By: G & J - Monday, Nov 19, 2012 at 18:05

Monday, Nov 19, 2012 at 18:05
Stephen.

Thanks very much for posting that information.

It is great data for us 200 series owners.

Regards Geoff
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Reply By: Spannl - Tuesday, Nov 20, 2012 at 02:46

Tuesday, Nov 20, 2012 at 02:46
Thanks Stephen
I have a scan gauge fitted but still trying to work out the readings so your figures helps a lot.
You get all this info on the gauge but with nothing the compare it with it takes some time to work out what it means. It's good to have this baseline data.
On the GVM front I'm going to talk to Lovels they do the upgrade to 3800 kgs

Which is not as good as what I've already put under her but putting springs and shocks without paperwork does not mean a thing!!
Even the fitters said the Lovel gear isn't as good as the Kings springs and Bilsten struts.

That's life
Cheers
Laurie
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Follow Up By: Gone Bush - Tuesday, Nov 20, 2012 at 05:12

Tuesday, Nov 20, 2012 at 05:12
Laurie,

a GVM upgrade is interesting and needs a real close look before making the final decision.

ARB do an upgrade with 100kg front coil springs and 200kg rears. It gives a new GVM of 3580kg. That's an improvement of 280kg on the original GVM.

My personal opinion, and that may be worth diddly, is that any stronger coils (and therefore a larger GVM upgrade) will give a very harsh ride around town, unhitched. My present GXL has ARB 200kg coils front and rear and the ride is good. Others with ARB 400kg coils report a harsh ride.

BOG members, Bow & Nan, posted this photo on the factory forum:
Image Could Not Be Found
It shows their GVM upgrade. As near as can be to a 3800kg upgrade that only translated to an increased towing capacity of 220kg. I don't know what brand they used, and I haven't seen any comments from them on the ride quality, but I would have to suspect that it would be a little harsh. I hope they don't mind me posting their photo.

Using that assumption, is a 220kg upgrade in towing capacity worth the harsh ride?

By all means get a GVM upgrade, maybe using lighter springs like ARB offer, and you can carry more in the Cuiser, but have a good think about what you can leave home out of the van next time.

cheers
Stephen
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Follow Up By: Bow & Nan - Tuesday, Nov 20, 2012 at 18:43

Tuesday, Nov 20, 2012 at 18:43
Mr Bush

ARB 400kg coils and air bags in the rear, 100kg coils in the front.
285x70x17 tyres.(BFG load rated at 121)

We have a rear tyre carrier and a 180L rear longranger tank fitted.

With the boat on the roof and the BT on the back the ride is good.

With empty fuel tanks and no boat the ride is hard but not harsh. (KDSS)

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Follow Up By: Gone Bush - Tuesday, Nov 20, 2012 at 19:15

Tuesday, Nov 20, 2012 at 19:15
Thanks Greg,

I'm glad you popped into the discussion.

I hope I didn't make any wrong assumptions.

Cheers
Stephen
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Follow Up By: Bow & Nan - Tuesday, Nov 20, 2012 at 19:35

Tuesday, Nov 20, 2012 at 19:35
Happy to help Mr Bush

The 285x70X17 tyres give a better ride then the 285x65X17 standard tyres.

Never driven a 200 series with 18 inch rims but lower profile always gives a harder ride.
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Reply By: Spydor - Tuesday, Nov 20, 2012 at 04:18

Tuesday, Nov 20, 2012 at 04:18
After reading the figures on whether to drive in "sequential" or "drive" curiosity got the better of me, So i got the cruiser out (200) and went for a run. I came back with very different figures. "ie"
At ninety klms per hour in drive the vehicle is doing 2000 rpm
At ninety klms per hour in S5 the vehicle is doing 2000 rpm
At ninety klms per hour in S4 the vehicle is doing 2300 rpm
With my basic knowledge of mechanics i don'tsee how the engine can do less revs in S4 that it does in S5. I was under the impression that the lower the gear, the higher the revs? Maybe technology has finally beaten me.
HELP!!!!!!!!
Cheers Spydor & Robyn
P.S. Stephen
I hope that is not your scan gauge with 129 mph (206.4 klms p/h) showing on the readout.
Spydor
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Follow Up By: Gone Bush - Tuesday, Nov 20, 2012 at 04:46

Tuesday, Nov 20, 2012 at 04:46
Spydor, referring to the figures in my post above:

2300 rpm (approx) in S5 is with the torque converter UNLOCKED. If you can get it to lock at that speed while towing (you can't, but it will at 100kph) the rpm will drop to about 18-1900 revs.

BUT the TC WILL lock in S4 at 90kph and the revs will drop from about 2400 to about 2200. It's all to do with the TC locking or not. That is what causes the revs to drop and the TFT to drop.

And don't forget, all my figures above are with a 3500kg pendulum hanging off my Cruiser's butt.
Stephen
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Reply By: Spannl - Wednesday, Nov 21, 2012 at 05:46

Wednesday, Nov 21, 2012 at 05:46
Hi All
Greg good to see you have jumped in, when you the BF Goodridge 70profile tyres on did you notice a jump in your fuel usage?
I believe my fuel jumped when I fitted them.
I saw on LCOOL someone said he was using 20% more fuel when he fitted BF Goodridge 70 profile tyres.
Have you done a GVM upgrade or just put heavier gear on?
AnswerID: 585021

Follow Up By: Bow & Nan - Thursday, Nov 22, 2012 at 00:13

Thursday, Nov 22, 2012 at 00:13
Remember to allow for the 3% change to the speedo reading.

My fuel consumption stayed about the same when I changed to BF Goodrich A/T 70 profile tyres.

My son put Cooper M/T 70 profile tyres on his 200 series and had a increase in fuel consumption.
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Reply By: The Warren - Friday, Nov 23, 2012 at 02:23

Friday, Nov 23, 2012 at 02:23
Hi All
I have had my 200 series for 2 years and haven't towed the van until last week with it.
Previously I have towed the van on all occasions with an F250.
Lets just say I am one very disappointed 200 series owner.
Firstly I have used it primarly for work and I have now done in excess of 90,000kms.
1st mod, chip and exhaust as I found the engine response to be very disappointing after all the hype. I have had no trouble and would recommend this to any one. The car is now completely different and quite responsive to drive. The fuel consumption is very little different, if anything slightly better. Fuel consumption on average 11.8 l/100kms. Majority of travel on open road at 95-100km/hr ( not good)
2nd mod, suspension upgrade, my passengers in the rear were continually complaining of the car rolling all the time and feeling car sick. We normally have 4 in the car travelling 50kms per day to work. I have put king springs with tough dog shocks again big difference, much better ride.

Towing the van (19ft just on 3.1tonne)
At 95-100kph in S5 and TC locked majority of the time fuel consumption 4kms/l.
On one leg from Denham back to Geraldton into strong wind for about half the leg we used 115l for 425kms 3.7kms/l. In 4 years with my F 250 I never saw the fuel consumption get so low. In actual fact if my fuel consumption was less than 5 kms/l I was disappointed.
The other major disappointment was how much the van moved the 200 series around in the wind or when passed by a road train etc. This just did not occur with the F250.
My recommendation to any one who is going to spend considerable time with their Bushtracker on the back would be to stay away from the 200 series and opt for a Chevy or F250/350.

Regards
Roger
AnswerID: 585022

Follow Up By: 2 Jays - Sunday, Nov 25, 2012 at 06:26

Sunday, Nov 25, 2012 at 06:26
You Wascally Wabbit!
When did you slow down to 95-100?

Wegards
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Reply By: Geoff n Kay - Friday, Nov 23, 2012 at 14:10

Friday, Nov 23, 2012 at 14:10
could'nt agree more Rodger the Warren

we spent heaps trying to get a 100's up to the mark all failed

next thing was another axel

brought the Chev instead

works a treat

cheers

Geoff
AnswerID: 585023

Follow Up By: Andrew & Jen - Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 18:30

Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 18:30
I agree

Travelling with the F250 is like being on railway tracks wrt sway - steady as a rock.

Also no problem with GVM or GCM. With authorities really starting to crack down on tow vehicles/combinations that are over their design limits, it is very reassuring to know we are well under.We keep the weight of the BT to a minimum, carrying most of our supplies, etc in the F250.

On the last trip I was coming home along the Murray Valley Hwy on the Friday before the Melbourne Cup LWE, VicPol had set up their operations caravan at a weighbridge near Kerang and were weighing all tow vehicles and caravans heading NW. To my surprise, I was waved through with the guy directing traffic giving me the thumbs up. He must have known his vehicles and weights :-) [mind you, the F250 is fitted with dual wheels and a F350 spring pack]

And last June school holidays, SAPol set up a similar operation at Pt Wakefield, weighing all 4WDs, including those towing CTs or caravans. I think the figure was 63% were over loaded.

And as to fuel consumption. About 22L/100 at 95ish with the tyres a bit on the soft side to give a better ride. All up weight about 8T

Cheers
Andrew
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Follow Up By:- Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 22:00

Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 22:00
Andrew are you sure of your facts re the scalies? Have you proof this occured? (links please)
I have seen forum posts disclaiming it.

Maybe this was another of the many furfies pervading the cyber world.

I wonder what the RANGER would think about this thread claiming you can only safely tow a BT with a truck like the F250 or Chevvy.
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Reply By: Geoff n Kay - Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 22:12

Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 22:12
when you have a bigger van Ern from my experience affraid thats about it mate

cost us heaps to find that out too mate

cheers

Geoff
AnswerID: 585024

Reply By: Andrew & Jen - Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 22:47

Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 22:47
ern1943

Rereading my post I cannot see how you can interpret it as saying "you can only safely tow a BT with a truck like the F250 or Chevvy."

For your clarification, what I was attempting to state was that -
1) being over GVM is less likely in a suitable F250/350/450/Chevy, etc, as they have larger mass limits and
2) given their longer wheelbase, they are more stable towing than the shorter wheelbase 4WDs

As well as the F250, I still have a Series 80 FTD which I use with the Tvan and which I was going to use with the BT. I had the towing limit raised to 3500 kg but in the end it was the GVM, even when raised to 3240kg, that was the limiting factor. I simply could not legally carry the required water, food, etc for self sustained, long distance outback travel.I suspect that many people would get a bit of a shock if they put their fully loaded rig over the weigh bridge.

My understanding is that in some states, the police often take the crashed (4WD) vehicle to the nearest weigh bridge for checking if it has been involved in a roll over as overloading (particularly of the roof rack) is apparently becoming a significant factor (plus inexperience).

As to the increased use of weigh bridges by the police (not the "scalies" as you call them) I have personally witnessed one of them and was told of the Pt Wakefield one by a camper who said his vehicle had been one of those weighed. I personally think it is a goood move by the police. I think I could confidently say that we have all seen vehicles and trailer/caravan combinations that have been over loaded. As an example, we saw one Series 80 up at Tibooburra which I reckon would have tipped the scales at close on 4T. With 5 adults (there alone goes the GVM), the back crammed with gear including fridge, water, etc, a bullbar with a winch and festooned chains and a roof rack piled high with gas bottle, extra fuel, swags, etc, it was an accident waiting to happen.

Cheers
Andrew
AnswerID: 585025

Reply By: The Warren - Tuesday, Nov 27, 2012 at 10:12

Tuesday, Nov 27, 2012 at 10:12
Hi All
I have been a Toyota fan for many years, first a 60series then an 80 series followed by a 100series and now a 200series all diesels. In between the 100series and 200series I had an F250.
During the first monthes of owning each Toyota I have been very happy/impressed with the car except for the 200 series. I also have an MC licence and have driven many Road Trains for a number of years.
In my opinion apart from the disappointment of the fuel consumption for the 200series I don't believe it is very well balanced car. I found the 100 series much more stable and less affected by wind when towing the van.
When I first got the 200s 2 years ago, a friend with a Nissan Patrol ute broke down and I went to his rescue with a tandom car trailer. On the return trip home I got to 80kph and the trailer took of from one side to the other, this was a little unsettling as I wasn't expecting it to occur at anything near this speed. I slowed down and waited a while then accelerated again and sure enough the same symptoms.
Then last week when towing the van for the first time I found that the 200 series moved much more than I would have liked and more than I can remember the 100 series moving. In particular when passing a truck or in a cross wind.

So I have a question for people with 200 series, how many other people have had similiar experiences that have unsettled them.

Regards
Roger
AnswerID: 585026

Reply By: Barry and Shirl - Friday, Jan 04, 2013 at 07:40

Friday, Jan 04, 2013 at 07:40
Chev silverado 2500 HD way to go 5 T tow 500 kg ball weight 17 l to 100 k @ 1500 revs 1100nm torque better economy than Sahara twice the power all this towing 21 ft BT 4 t unreal now 2012 model even better every one should have one Barry
AnswerID: 585027

Follow Up By: Noosa Fox - Sunday, Jan 06, 2013 at 03:45

Sunday, Jan 06, 2013 at 03:45
Barry,

If we could get one in RH drive for the cost of the LH drive ones in the States then I am sure that many caravan owners would have one, BUT to get an imported LH drive vehicle and have it converted to RH drive puts that many extra $$$$ on the price that a large percentage of caravan owners simply cannot find the $$$ to get one. Me included.

Brian
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Follow Up By: The Warren - Sunday, Jan 06, 2013 at 22:57

Sunday, Jan 06, 2013 at 22:57
Brian,

If you take the full on road cost of a Sahara and then add the cost of a suspension upgrade and a GVM upgrade you would be very close to the cost of a Silverado or a F250 and you would have twice the car with a much better safety margin

Roger
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Reply By: Barry and Shirl - Monday, Jan 07, 2013 at 07:27

Monday, Jan 07, 2013 at 07:27
Chevy has exhaust obrakes heated and cooled leather seats $120000 ring Performax my mobile 0428751939 if you want some help BT Chev I have owned both Sahara and chev
AnswerID: 585028

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